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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lasers
    Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 12:29pm
I think Ovi is a good builder, but I can’t see them getting a “better “ boat than LP. If they are working to the build manual as LP were doing they will get about the same. The spec on resin /fibre ratio will have been set and won’t be too tough for anyone to achieve.The reinforcements are all specified and quite low cost . If Ovi was to drive the resin content down by taking more “care” what would they do then? Slop a lot of resin into the bottom-I don’t think so. Lasers have not really suffered much from structural failures so the basic spec and detailing was fine with LP And the business of getting the mast rake right-well that’s not difficult with a simple jig. ( just to say I have no relationship with LP at all!)
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

I think Ovi is a good builder, but I can’t see them getting a “better “ boat than LP. If they are working to the build manual as LP were doing they will get about the same. The spec on resin /fibre ratio will have been set and won’t be too tough for anyone to achieve.The reinforcements are all specified and quite low cost . If Ovi was to drive the resin content down by taking more “care” what would they do then? Slop a lot of resin into the bottom-I don’t think so. Lasers have not really suffered much from structural failures so the basic spec and detailing was fine with LP And the business of getting the mast rake right-well that’s not difficult with a simple jig. ( just to say I have no relationship with LP at all!)

I think Ovi will get a more consistent boat than some Lasers have been in the past.All closer to the minimum weight, all with close tolerance of mast rake, all the hulls and decks joined consistently.
I've seen old pictures of Lasers with different curvature of the hull around the dagger board slot. Boats out of the same mould but stuck together differently. Maybe in the old days they were flogging so many that some came out of  the mould too soon. GRP in the old days could be pretty gung ho, these days resins have improved, H&S matters, people work differently. So there's possibly quite a difference between you new £4k Laser and what you might have bought 30 years ago.
It's what we expect these days. Top Laser sailors have often said that one new Laser 'feels different to another'. These days that kind of variation should be reduced. With any one design class people go a bit OTT about the smallest difference of course.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Forensic evaluation of a LP Laser would help, anyone actually seen one? can't see how they can knock three grands worth of quality out of the boat, unless parts are all sourced from the East, still using ice blue colour, needs a LP whistle blower to spill the beans.

They can lose some costs like providing a fleet to a championships, the cost of endless meetings with WS etc, but I can't see they are going to make much money at £4k retail. You need to shift a lot of units to keep the costs down. I've worked for a few manufacturing firms selling hundreds to hundreds of thousands of units a year, the cost of actually making the product materials and factory labour isn't half of it.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 1:39pm
https://www.laserperformance.global/pages/50_years_laser
Robert
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 1:50pm
Their website is totally transformed from the last time I looked. Most of the Laser spares are still UKLA legal.
Robert
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Fatboi View Drop Down
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Posts: 189 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 2:25pm
Spot on Eric_C 

It is not about building a better boat per say, but about building a consistently quality boat. We have all heard stories (and I've been part of) measuring rake, weighing spars and bend testing at the factory to get the rig set up that was fast.

Its the extra time taken in process that gives the increase in cost, but like I say, at club level I would have no issue racing a LP boat. On opens however the boat has to be the same and conform with the ILCA rules, etc. 

I quite like the fact there is an entry route to club racing that is more affordable to boost club numbers. 


Edited by Fatboi - 04 Feb 22 at 2:26pm
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Their website is totally transformed from the last time I looked. Most of the Laser spares are still UKLA legal.


Awful lot of stuff 'Out of Stock'.
Even for boats like the Vago.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

Spot on Eric_C 

It is not about building a better boat per say, but about building a consistently quality boat. We have all heard stories (and I've been part of) measuring rake, weighing spars and bend testing at the factory to get the rig set up that was fast.

Its the extra time taken in process that gives the increase in cost, but like I say, at club level I would have no issue racing a LP boat. On opens however the boat has to be the same and conform with the ILCA rules, etc. 

I quite like the fact there is an entry route to club racing that is more affordable to boost club numbers. 
I don't mind racing against LP Lasers at club level.
It wouldn't even worry me if a new, LP boat consistently won.
I wouldn't want anyone I like to pay £4k for a dog of a boat.

Unless we're talking about commercial sailing schools, 'entry route' and 'new boat' or 'four grand' should be kept well apart IMHO. Thee are plenty of £1k Lasers which won't be holding anyone back until they've been racing for at least a couple of years.

For many private owners £4k could be expensive if it cuts off the ability to tap into the learning that's available in open meetings. I've never got involved in Laser opens, but in other classes, the CA training/coaching and open meetings and access to help from Class members wanting to put something back into the class has been a huge help.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 5:44pm
Very reminiscent of new car market, nobody getting anything in or out, had a email last week from DAF trucks, chassis being delivered are not road legal due to brakes not having EBS chip fitted, brakes work though for use in yard and work shop, nearside door window won't work, central locking won't work, long list of stuff, all due to supply chain issues.

Edited by 423zero - 04 Feb 22 at 5:58pm
Robert
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423zero View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 22 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by 423zero

can't see how they can knock three grands worth margin out of the boat,


FTFY and I can.
Sincerest apologies Griff, missed this, thank you for your consideration, this heartwarming example is exactly what has been missing from this thread  Thumbs Up OP has been treated with complete and utter disdain  Angry YES you know who you are  Censored
Robert
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