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tick View Drop Down
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Posts: 223 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fireball Questions
    Posted: 24 May 13 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by tick

Oi! Grf.....Ebay, Tasar, Mylars, complete, Didcot, £260 4 hours to go!!!!!!!

        Sodding hell!!! it went for £370.00 !!!!!!
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skslr View Drop Down
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Posts: 139 		Post Options Post Options   Quote skslr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 13 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by SUGmeister


Originally posted by JohnJack

You can get Hornets pretty cheap where ever you go. Not too many of them however, mainly on the South Coast & Essex. A friend of mine does them up, onto his third, never paid a dime for one. 
Most of them are composite with a flat wooden deck. A coat or two of 2 pot and it is as good as plastic.
3 on Apollo Duck, two for less than £500, the other is relatively new, completely open cockpit for £1500 (looks a bit like an old I14 pre racks)
I am absolutely convinced that I recall that the Dutch Hornet fleet morphed into a class with a big fathead mainsail, twin trapezes and asymmetric spinnaker. Photos of it looked odd but this was in the early days of twin trap asys in the UK and thoze crazy hollanders had nothing of their own to play with. Probably didn't last long and probably killed the Dutch class outright.Scanned the web and can find nothing to substantiate this. Even so if the Dutch, in my head, can do it then so can Graeme


We sailed against these converted Hornets many years ago. It took one really windy day of racing at Bruinisse to literally destroy these efforts. Now they got RS800s and niners to play with, boats where the structure was designed to take the higher loads from the start.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 13 at 10:17pm
What is the current thinking in the FB class ref carbon masts?
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Noah View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 13 at 8:03am
Originally posted by getafix

What is the current thinking in the FB class ref carbon masts?


Give us a chance - We don't have carbon anything yet! Seriously though, I believe it would drive the costs up and the effective max crew weight down.

Any significant rule change in an international class takes years to adopt from first proposal and we don't have one yet.
Nick
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 13 at 3:41pm
OK, just asking.  FWIW I don't think the crew weights would go down necessarily, but I do agree about some increase in costs
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 13 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Noah


Give us a chance - We don't have carbon anything yet! Seriously though, I believe it would drive the costs up and the effective max crew weight down.

Classic luddite honestly you couldn't write it never mind make it up...
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 13 at 6:33pm
no- spot on.  The price of a competitive phantom is far greater now due to the changes to carbon/mylar/epoxy and for sure, lighter guys can now sail them.   

Now I'm not sl*gging it - it was voted in by the CA knowing full well the likely increase in cost, fragmentation of the existing fleet etc,  However the gamble paid... a class in the relative doldrums some 10 years or so ago, is now one of the most highly regarded adult single handers in the UK with enviable participation:

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/Phantom/attendance

shows general positive trend, against the 'norm' anyway.

I'm not sure the Fireball needs to take the same gamble.  They're doing very well considering they're in the most 'targeted' group of boats from SMOD competitors over the last 20 or so years.   Laser 2, Iso, L4000, V3000, Buzz, RS500, Laser Vago.... the Fireball is going to outlast them all.   

I can't think those folks 'that bothered' by the lack of a carbon stick would buy one anyway, for all the other 'luddite' reasons you could throw at it- Scow, symmetric, single trap, boxy looking, no twin poles etc. Those early adopters can go on supporting the 'sexy marketing' and low carbon content crud elsewhere from the industry, racing on handicap & moaning the numbers are wrong... while the fireball sailors will still choose to buy a boat from a builder who frankly doesn't appear to need a website to keep the order book full for months at a time; because the product is genuinely that good and well engineered.  

Or even better, they invest in a used boat, minus the VAT.  Shock horror, it is still very competitive despite being raced solidly for 3 or 4 years.  A new set of (hopefully) measured sails... and boom, a World Championship winning package... if only it were in the right hands.




Edited by yellowwelly - 03 Jun 13 at 6:43pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 13 at 8:33pm
YellowWelly is spot on about many things, but I'm not sure the price of a new Phantom is that high compared to say ten years ago?
I suspect 'balls wil eventually get carbon masts, when it becomes significantly cheaper than ali.
But at the moment, they have a formula that works, it's the other fleets that need to change their way of thinking, then they might get the quality of racing that Fireballs get around the circuit and abroad.
Must admit I haven't sailed one for 20 years, but having seen them at Shoreham a few times, I can see why the class has staying power.

15 years ago, you would never have convinced me that Solos, Fireballs, Merlins and Lasers would be as strong as they are now. Most of what was 'modern' then is history now.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 13 at 10:15am
When I bought my Phant in 2008 it was at the point when 'going carbon' and 'mylar' was the only real option.  However I could have bought my boat for £6k with an alloy stick and dacron main.  I ended up spending £8.5k to go carbon, add mylar, put a carbon lifting rudder on it and other bits of string I never could figure out what to do with.... 

I'm not knocking it, I knew what the cost for 'tricked up' would be.  You got a lot of very well built boat with top spec components for £8.5k compared to other sailboats for not dissimilar money and it retained a reasonable chunk of that in resale- so the cost of ownership wasn't 'that bad'.


Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Jun 13 at 10:16am
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Posts: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 13 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I've been looking around for some old mingers to have a mess about with
 


Is this any good ?
Steve
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