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tink View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Riv

The use of the word Laser and the use of the word Legal in the same sentance should be banned.

This is alliteration gone crazy giving something spurious authority and distorting the perceptions of users.

Compliant seems a better word to me

Interesting that the LPE XD Laser at £3,985 is supplied with a ‘class legal Mk II sail’  (the sketch on the website even has a red button). Clearly their lawyers where all over the wording. The top mast is described as composite, not sure it is compliant to any thing. 
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 7:05pm
The use of the word Laser and the use of the word Legal in the same sentance should be banned.

This is alliteration gone crazy giving something spurious authority and distorting the perceptions of users.

Compliant seems a better word to me
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 6:47pm
  ......update a used one with new bits and a decent sail - why not do that?

Absolutely if that is what still might fire you up....But do you get any necessary spares or upgrades from the ILCA or LPE coordinated suppliers ? ... now let me ponder that one for a while.   The hull is still 'legal' in either 'code' as it was from 'earlier times'.  OK so far - you could sail in either 'code' legally - but you still  need some spares right  ... Are they, each and every fitting marked as purist LPE or ILCA ? So who do you buy bits and pieces from - without the self-appointed boat Stazi getting all worked up ?  ... and who on earth, at club level, is really going to police it ?   Total FARCE in the making...

Ah must be the 'School of unintended consequences' out at play once again.....and out to cane the simply dumb.   As if there were not more important things to deal with in life.   


Edited by Cirrus - 06 Oct 20 at 6:48pm
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by epicfail

I just wonder why a club sailor would buy a new Laser given the number available used. What is the benefit of having a new one; update a used one with new bits and a decent sail - why not do that?

Coz they can Wink. No different to buying a new car. Shiny new toy. Does the same as the old toy  LOL
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Posts: 61 		Post Options Post Options   Quote epicfail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 5:43pm
I just wonder why a club sailor would buy a new Laser given the number available used. What is the benefit of having a new one; update a used one with new bits and a decent sail - why not do that?
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Blimey - surely we should leave the 'family' to their own internal quables and look at something a bit more interesting than this wretched shambles now.  History is not on the side of any organisation or individuals so distracted from reality. 

Darwin got it right .... Adapt or die and forget about any previous glories or your versions of them, they are all very soon forgotton and unimportant.   

The Laser concept was a disrupting one when it first emerged and had a revolutionary effect on the sector.  I even owned a string of 6 of them way back, and was a strong advocate for the class then.   It is all so disappointing now.   There must have been short of adults in the room when this self-inflicted decline started and they are still at it today.   In a regular company any independent shareholders would have sold out long ago when they realised they were wasting their time as much as their money.


Talk about re-arranging the deckchairs .... !!

Agree entirely. Though the average club/school/holiday company punter couldnt care and just wants the cheapest new boat possible, and will go the LPE route IMHO.

All involved parties to this farcical mess (ILCA/LPE mainly, though their are others) should hang their heads in shame.
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by iGRF

[QUOTE=Late starter]
At club level £3.5k for an LPE replica is interesting but personally I don't think I could overlook the ethics of sailing a counterfeit.


Sailing a counterfeit?
So you don't worry at all about the 'ethics' of World Sailing in all this?
I/QUOTE]
Not really, I'm not that interested in and have no control over WS. On the other hand I do have control over what boat I sail on my local pond, and I have no desire to sail anything that has any connection with Mr Babyfingers.  Otherwise I agree with Cirrus, this is all such a shame for those of us who have had so much pleasure out of these little boats. 
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Interesting points raised about sales numbers and laser supply problems. 
I was led to believe that laser supply problems only really effected the USA and was not really a problem in the uk and Europe . Does anyone know different? 
Also it would be very interesting to see the sales figures of the aero and the laser in the UK and compare them to the world wide figures.
I would guess the uk sales figures for the aero and laser would be quite close but worldwide the laser must sell many many times more . 
Can anyone add some facts to my ponderings  Smile


Based purely on my observation, the numbers between Laser and Aero sales are skewed as many Training Schools, Holiday companies etc buy fleets of Lasers (LPE are significantly cheaper and would be a major decision factor) and less so Aero's - maybe 1 or 2. You would need a more detailed analysis based on buyer demographic. Private buyers would be a good stat.

As an example, a year ago, Wildwind holidays replaced and bought 10 Lasers for their base in Vassiliki, whereas they still have only their 2 Aero's. I was at Wildwind last year  :-)


Edited by Chris_H - 06 Oct 20 at 3:38pm
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 1:41pm
Blimey - surely we should leave the 'family' to their own internal quables and look at something a bit more interesting than this wretched shambles now.  History is not on the side of any organisation or individuals so distracted from reality. 

Darwin got it right .... Adapt or die and forget about any previous glories or your versions of them, they are all very soon forgotton and unimportant.   

The Laser concept was a disrupting one when it first emerged and had a revolutionary effect on the sector.  I even owned a string of 6 of them way back, and was a strong advocate for the class then.   It is all so disappointing now.   There must have been short of adults in the room when this self-inflicted decline started and they are still at it today.   In a regular company any independent shareholders would have sold out long ago when they realised they were wasting their time as much as their money.


Talk about re-arranging the deckchairs .... !!


Edited by Cirrus - 06 Oct 20 at 1:43pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 20 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

There are loads of abandoned Laser hulls sat in most dinghy parks.

Other than by applying honesty and decency do you think that the desperate removing the plaque and sticking it on a current Laser can be prevented ?

Having had 4 lasers over the years I should know if the number is marked elsewhere.

Yes to comply with the RCD and type approvals each hull must carry a unique Hull Identification Number.

Taking a HIN from an older boat and sticking it on a new one opens up a huge can of worms legally with regards to RCD and Type Approvals which are legally enforceable in law unlike the contract spats. Not to mention opening themselves up to all sorts of litigation should something happen and the doctored hull not comply.
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