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Phil54 
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Joined: 15 Mar 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
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 Topic: Anti-catPosted: 15 Mar 08 at 9:18pm |
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After many years of racing dingies/cats around the country,I wonder why cats cannot race at certain major handicap events? some clubs are not suitable-but most are.
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radixon
Really should get out more 
Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 08 at 9:22pm |
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Monohull v's Multihull
One can tack quickly, the other takes a wide area to tack. You can sail/race on a handicap system but depending on the course/wind direction etc the Cats may wind hands down. Welcome to the forum anyway!!!! |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 08 at 10:07pm |
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same reason that you can't race a mono at certain large cat handicap events I should think...
Edited by JimC |
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Jimbob
Groupie 
Joined: 05 Sep 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 77 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 08 at 11:14pm |
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Radixon
"Monohull v's Multihull One can tack quickly, the other takes a wide area to tack. You can sail/race on a handicap system but depending on the course/wind direction etc the Cats may wind hands down." Neither of these two reasons are valid. Some Cats can tack quicker than some skiff type boats. And in certain wind conditions Cats are very uncompetitive. So it's swings and roundabouts in Handicap racing. |
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Jimbob
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Worthy
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 511 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 12:41am |
Agreed, but that is because they have historically moved in different circles. If cats were to allow monos to handicap events then would they come? And vice versa? Probably not. Edited by Worthy |
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Phil54
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Joined: 15 Mar 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 12:49pm |
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I agree with Jimbob most modern cats tack quite well now , a couple of years ago i did the birkett trophy at ullswater in my shadow with about 200 other dingies,as you can imagine the atmosphere towards me was slightly tense at times,but I really enjoyed the race and will do it again (if allowed).I just wish some parties could be a little more open minded at these traditional events.
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foaminatthedeck
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 18 May 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 318 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 7:18pm |
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I have limited experence of racing cats and mono on the same course but I found the experence of being overtaken by a number of Tornado s on a beam reach a most unpleasent experence that I'm not keen to repeat, I was in the contender so not that slow but the T comming past just went to close for my comfort. So much so that I think it might put me off a join cat mono open meeting,
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Lark 2170
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oz man
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 26 Apr 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 247 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 8:18pm |
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its never nice to be over taken is it being passed by a 49er while in a topper probably isnt that great either dont see many clubs turning them away though |
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English Dave
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 Aug 06 Location: Northern Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 682 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 8:23pm |
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Do these handicap races include 49ers and the like? At Ballyholme we all sail the same course in the winter (even in the summer we share half of the marks) so there's no reason why cats and mono can't share the same space. But the main problem with handicaps is that cats are so much faster than most monos. So do we sail the same course and finish 20minutes earlier than the rest of you? Or run average lap times? In the past when we had a 49er fleet we used to race against them because putting a 49er in a handicap race against, say, a Laser is equally meaningless. The other problem with putting cats against monos is that there aren't proper PY returns for most cats. We race off the formula-based SCHRS because there just aren't enough cats to give decent PY returns. What many do is take those Cats that do have a PY and extrapolate against the SCHRS numbers to give a PY equivalence. Not sure if that would be legal though in large open handicap events. |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 8:58pm |
The organising club can do anything it finds reasonabkle to establish trial numbers for PYs. If sailors don't like what the club does they don't hav to enter... As Cat sailors seem to regard the SCHRS as giving reasonable results then using it to interpolate PY numbers for Cat classes seems eminently sensible. |
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