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Final Positions?

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rogerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Final Positions?
    Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 8:31am

Yesterday we had a three race event with two to count. Your comments appreciated.

Boat A. finished 3rd. 1st . 2nd.

Boat B finished  5th  2nd  1st.

With discards both have three points. Who wins the series.

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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 8:35am

Boat A on countback.

In case of a tie, split them on the discard scores.  If there is still a tie after that then generally its a tie, although I have known this (rare) situation to be solved on the toss of a coin!

When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

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rogerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 9:00am
Boat B is claiming that the final race result is taken and discards are not counted.
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rogerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 9:01am
but he would wouldnt he
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 9:16am

I think boat B wins, discards don't really count in this. Here are the two applicable rules:

A8 SERIES TIES

A8.1 If there is a series score tie between two or more boats, each boat’s

race scores shall be listed in order of best to worst, and at the first

point(s) where there is a difference the tie shall be broken in favour of

the boat(s) with the best score(s). No excluded scores shall be used.

A8.2 If a tie remains between two or more boats, they shall be ranked

in order of their scores in the last race. Any remaining ties shall be

broken by using the tied boats’ scores in the next-to-last race and so

on until all ties are broken. These scores shall be used even if some of

them are excluded scores.

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 9:17am
Unless your SIs say something different Boat B is correct. Read Appendix A. At the moment discards aren't taken into account at all.

A8 SERIES TIES
A8.1 If there is a series score tie between two or more boats, each boat’s
race scores shall be listed in order of best to worst, and at the first
point(s) where there is a difference the tie shall be broken in favour of
the boat(s) with the best score(s). No excluded scores shall be used.
A8.2 If a tie remains between two or more boats, they shall be ranked
in order of their scores in the last race. Any remaining ties shall be
broken by using the tied boats’ scores in the next-to-last race and so
on until all ties are broken. These scores shall be used even if some of
them are excluded scores..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 9:21am

it al depends on what is set out in the sailing club (SSI's) we have a weird thing at our club where the open events SSI's say final race and the club racing is count back... has changed positions...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 9:25am

Mark & Jim.

Thankyou. That clarifies the situation even though its not the result I want to hear. I was boat A. Things got a little heated between boat B and the OOD yesterday so I said I would look into it and abide by the current rules. To be honest I was chuffed to be in the running at all.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 10:16am

You should have nailed boat B on the start line and then sat on him ...

Then you'd not be asking this question.

(assuming the winner of race 1 was not in the picture ...)



Edited by Guest#260
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 07 at 10:18am
Originally posted by rogerd

That clarifies the situation even though its not the result I want to hear. I was boat A.


It changes regularly. In 2004 boat A would have won. The tie break rules change fairly regularly as ISAF juggle them when people come up with clever ways of exploiting the rules with what's seen as undesirable results. Should you have a few hours with nothing better to do you *could* go back through ISAF meeting minutes and find the logic.

Its a useful lesson - no RC should act without double checking the rule book because it might have changed since last time they read it.

Funnily enough it came up in a Open at my club this weekend too, 1,2,3,1 beat 2,1,1,2. What made it particularly ironic was that 2,1,1,2 was the guy who wrote the SIs that said standard appendix A and thus cost him the 1st place.

Edited by JimC
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