Boat A on countback.

In case of a tie, split them on the discard scores.  If there is still a tie after that then generally its a tie, although I have known this (rare) situation to be solved on the toss of a coin!

I think boat B wins, discards don't really count in this. Here are the two applicable rules:

A8.1 If there is a series score tie between two or more boats, each boat’s

A8.2 If a tie remains between two or more boats, they shall be ranked

it al depends on what is set out in the sailing club (SSI's) we have a weird thing at our club where the open events SSI's say final race and the club racing is count back... has changed positions...

You should have nailed boat B on the start line and then sat on him ...

Then you'd not be asking this question.

(assuming the winner of race 1 was not in the picture ...)

Moral victory to Mr Roger D. in the blue corner.  The other bloke's a cad.

OOuch, seems unfair to me. My sympathies. Pierre's right, You're the moral victor . 

Again ... if you are sitting on a 2,1,1 there is no way they other guy should have been able to win the final race ...

I had assumed class racing ... but ...

As the owner of the faster boat you could of sat on him hard, if he escaped use your speed to get back in front and then do it again and again ...

Frankly, I find the idea of sitting on someone hard pretty unsporting, and liable to lead to bad feeling - we're not professionals and are in this for fun after all.

I thought racing was all about finding the best sailor, and to my mind the better sailor is the one who can sail his boat fastest round the course, not the one who can use the rules to b*gg*r people up.

Sympathies to Rogerd, you are indeed the moral victor. Time for the ISAF to change the rules to obviate the need to b*gg*r people up.

Originally posted by CurlyBen Sorry if this just shows I've never sailed in handicap races (or many fleet races for that matter!) but would that not just mean the slow boat comprehensively beats the fast boat and you're in the same position, but with a bigger discard for the fast boat?

You would be able to sail the slow boat down the fleet (in handicap terms); and if they did escape you can just catch them up again.  you would bea ble to keep them in dirty air for the whole race;   It would work if the other boat would lose if the result of this race was a big discard for the slow boat (and a worse discard) for the fast boat.  Basically if the series was to be split on discards and the fast boat has a better discard going into this race, then the fast boat can sail the slow boat down the fleet so ensuring the slow boat has to count their (worse) discard as both boats will take this race as their discard.  

So in summary, it would work !

Plus there's lions very near where Roger sails Could turn nasty.

This is part of the game ... the Anslie/Schite showdown in Sydney was the only bit of coverage from the games that really got any media coverage.

Although this level of desire to win is probably a bit OTT in a club handicap race ... but then again if your don't want to race then just cruise ...

Surely 'Scheidt' ?!!!

But I thought the aim of sailing races was to find the fastest sailor, not the best lawyer?

We all love Ben, but personally I'd have been ashamed to win using those tactics. OK, it's the Olympics and they're all professionals, but imho anyone using those tactics at club level would be a tw@

If you're leading (excluding discard) before a final race, with only 2 boats in contention then obviously, the other team has to improve their score to beat you. If you can stop them doing that - you'll still be in front no matter where you finish. So in any series where there's a discard, and you're beating them before the last race,  sailing them out of contention can succeed.

You can even use it to beat a boat that's generally done the best and probably would win. For example Imagine a 50 boat Nationals 6 races, 5 to count:

Boat A has 1- 1- 15 - 1 - 1  Total before last race 19 but after discard 4pts

Boat B Has 2 - 3 - 5 - 2 - 6 Total before last Race 18 but after discard 12pts

So if in the last race, Boat B can force Boat A to 15th or worse, Boat B still finishes with 18 and wins over Boat A who's still on 19.

I totally agree that it's very unsporting to do that to a much slower boat.

But in handicap racing your on the water position is NOT your finishing position, and if, as suggested its the faster boat sailing the slower boat to the back you increase the probability that the slower boat will beat you on handicap. So this strategy can not work in handicap racing, unless you bury the slow boat at the start and then sail very fast - but you won't know if its worked until after the times have been calculated. and if, as suggested you just sailed the slow boat backwards and you finished 16th the slow boat would finish behind on the water but ahead on handicap then you've given away your position.

In the Lark for a 50 minute race I have to be some 2.5 minutes ahead of an Enterprise to beat it, so say I waste 15 minutes sailing them to the back, I've now got to achieve a 2.5 minute lead in the remaining 35 minutes sailing back through the slower boats and the Ent sailor must be as good as me otherwise I wouldn't bother. Boatspeed differential will only get me about 2 minutes - where does the rest of the time come from?

Must admit i need a new rule book, but are a discard and an excluded race the same? If they are not then appendix A reads differently, and the way we were used to.

You are missing the whole point of the post above; I'll make it more extreame to make it obvious what we are trying to explain....

Fast boat has 1,1,2,2, 3,3 to count

Slow boat has 2,2,1,3,1,9 to count in a fleet of 50 boats on hanicap.

So in order to win the series, slow boat must score better than 3rd in the last race to win (so discarding the 9 and beating the 3 that fast boat is counting). 

If fast boat sails slow down the fleet all the way around the course by covering them all the time, fast boat should be able to ensure that slow ends up with worse then 3rd.  Fast boats position in the last race will not count(remember thar are countinmg a 3).  The best plan for fast boat is to sail slow boat down the fleet as then have CONTROL over this.

The only other way to ensure winning the series is to win the last race and this is not totally under their control.  Slowing down the slow boat is under their control.

Gordon, as you will see from my post I cant read appendix A, as I dont have a rule book!

Is a discard now called an excluded race?

Seems that natural justice should suppport the boat that did better in the event overall, rather than the one that was less consistent in a tie situation, I expect that this is just another attempt to make the Olyimpics on  more exciting on the last day, and not about finding the best overall sailor.

AndyMck