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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: SNAKES!
    Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 2:33pm
Following the first article which I found to be overly aggressive, harsh and somewhat one sided, this follow up seemed a lot more balanced and weighed up some of the genuine reasons for decline and also where the support has picked up.

What is interesting, and I'm not sure if it will be captured in the next article is how some of these classes that have suffered what looked like non recoverable crashes have seemingly risen from the ashes, while those that this article hails as improving the recent situation are now struggling. I guess these are short term fluctuations and need to be considered carefully against the longer-term view.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 3:35pm
I think the biggest thing that the article misses is the way not only the high performance, but also the low performance classes have collapsed and there is a much higher percentage of boats in the moderate performance bands.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 3:38pm
I can't see a problem with some of the high performance classes turning professional, after seeing the way Star sailors league works, can't see how this will increase decline in sailing or indeed if it will reverse decline.
I sail at a club approaching cliff edge, majority of members well past retirement, all committee members are from this group, what to do about it is the problem ?
Reducing number of clubs will bring us closer to that demographic cliff edge, majority of our older members would not start again at another club.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 4:40pm
It's always interesting reading something from an insiders perspective as to 'what went wrong' in this instance I think he jumps about in time a bit, you can't mix the seventies with now, it was such a totally different era, and you can't ignore that in this sports desperate protectionism it brings about it's own demise time and again.

In my mind in recent times two things contributed to decline and they were the breakdown brought about by the Assym period of the nineties and the battle against it and the rush to roto mould of the early noughties.

My view is that with having finally spotted the problem, the combination of boats like the Aero/Zero and the lipstick application to the turkey classes, finally that 'too difficult to bother with anyway' part of the three things that make the sport less accessible has been dealt with and 'they' who would supply us with the garbage we have to sail in, may have finally spotted we're in the twenty-first century and want instant access and excitement in order to selfie our pursuits to our friends and buddies..

Now if only we can get Easy AND Exciting developed and packaged instead of fixation with 'you need to get to know the boat and spend less time trying to undo the damage Messrs Bethwaite inflicted upon us there could still be a future.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 5:33pm
Dinghy sailing is a fairly difficult sport to become good at (as is windsurfing) and getting to the point where you can access the 'excitement' takes considerably more effort than, say, mountain biking (and most people got over the initial hump on a bike as kids). There's not a lot we can do about that as it is the nature of the beast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 5:40pm
Two pence worth.

"Now if only we can get Easy AND Exciting developed and packaged instead of fixation with 'you need to get to know the boat and spend less time trying to undo the damage Messrs Bethwaite inflicted upon us there could still be a future."

This is recurring theme from you iGRF and one I mostly disagree with. I cannot see how easy can be exciting, surely it is a level of jeopardy which creates the excitement? Some do find speed exciting but I still contend easy speed pales quite quickly. Yes of course racing can be exciting an any level of jeopardy but that is a different theme and one removed from discussions about equipment (boats).

Much as I appreciate the articles and efforts researching both boats and sailing politics I think they focus on an inward looking blame game. To my mind any rise and fall in the popularity of sailing has much more to do with social circumstances and aspirations than anything else. Of course those of us into sailing quite naturally attribute much to our craft while we decry others and we are equally convinced that those "in charge" are doing it all wrong. I see this as a delusion of self importance.

Nothing stays the same forever and history is littered with skeletons of the next big thing.



  


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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 9:43pm
iGRF,
Do you have any evidence at all that established classes such as the three I own Mirror, Enterprise and Minisail, plus other similar classes have contributed to the decline in sailing ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 10:22pm
Interesting that the 3 boats you own could be said to have been major contributors to the boom in sailing. I can't really see that they contributed to the fall, as the class association for each of them actually only played a part in the story of the boats. With Mirrors and Minisails, far more boats were owned by people who never raced, and may have been totally unaware that there even was a CA.

That all 3 classes have faded in comparison to the glory days has far more to do with the way families live than internal pressures and politics, as Do Different says.

I suspect we should learn to live with sailing as a more niche sport, encouraging people to try it, and fit it into their lives in such a way that works for them, whether it be racing on the circuit or at a club, playing on an estuary or pond in the summer, hiring a Pico at a centre or going on a beach sailing holiday every couple of years. There should be fun, accessible boats that people can jump in and get a buzz from with only a modicum of skill - indeed, there are plenty out there already. Currently, making them a bit heavy is the most common way of taking them - or adding a hull, of course. There should also be boats out there for those who want to master something which will give equivalent thrills to sailors wth more experience, boats for those who want close, chess on the water style racing, boats for those who want to camp-cruise, and for every other wish. The diversity is what makes sailing, in all its forms, interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 10:30pm

I have to say that I'm not sure what the point of the article was precisely, but it is an interesting (

and massive topic.  So massive it is difficult to know which aspect to concentrate the conversation on.  What needs to be avoided, however, is a bout of navel gazing.  Times change.  I suppose the first thing is to clearly articulate the problem to be solved.  Declining club membership? Declining voluntary support to the club? Declining participation of members?  Declining new boat sales?

 

In my experience:

The number of people wanting to learn to sail seems healthy.

The number of people wanting to race (regularly) seems to be reducing.

The number of people prepared to buy a new boat (typically now 25% of salary) must be under pressure.

The number of people wanting to be members of any sort of club is reducing (for all sorts of social and technological reasons, also true for the decline in pubs).   

The need for boat storage is the same as ever for boat owners (hence the need to be a member of a club).

The number of people prepared to run a club on a voluntary basis is reducing.

 

I suspect the unfashionable nature of belonging to any sort of club (and the fact that even those that are willing to do that are unwilling to run said club) are at least as big a factor in the decline in sailing as any lack of people wanting to sail. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by craiggo

Following the first article which I found to be overly aggressive, harsh and somewhat one sided, this follow up seemed a lot more balanced and weighed up some of the genuine reasons for decline and also where the support has picked up.

What is interesting, and I'm not sure if it will be captured in the next article is how some of these classes that have suffered what looked like non recoverable crashes have seemingly risen from the ashes, while those that this article hails as improving the recent situation are now struggling. I guess these are short term fluctuations and need to be considered carefully against the longer-term view.


Paul, it does seem more balanced but what's still inherently disappointing is that the decline is assumed but not evidenced: there is a little pretaliation at keyboard warriors like me who don't necessarily agree

The concern should be that the majority of these changes are indicative of negative trends and that despite better clothing that delivers year around suitability and a wide choice of commercially available, accessible boats, that a look at both the headline numbers and those that underpin them shows a sport that is shrinking. This will probably be the cue for the usual keyboard warriors to dash off another "Dear Sir" missive on how their own club now has a vibrant youth scene with a cast of thousands and it is certainly the case that there are some very forward-looking establishments doing some great work out there.

but I'd like to see some actual evidence presented for the decline that is claimed.  Some proper analysis could then be  brought to bear....rather than more boat focussed history.

As a couple of others have already pointed out - it's more than the boats.

Similarly I'd like to hear what he thinks (or thinks that people think - same thing) the establishment errors which he references were.

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