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Change the PY System? |
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iGRF 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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 Topic: Change the PY System?Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 2:15pm |
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Following the many often heated PY discussions the suggestion of fixing the Laser (say at 60, or 600) and all the other handicaps calculated to pivot around it, obviously with the continuing caveat of individual clubs tailoring the system to their own requirements remaining in place.
Simple yes no answer, naturally a trial would have to be organised first. What do you think and why? |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 2:20pm |
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Can't seem to edit the opening post to credit A2Z for the suggestion.
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GarethT
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Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 2:31pm |
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No.
Until there is a system that takes into account wind, sea state, tide, course, etc no handicapping system will ever tell you who was the best - just who sailed well in a boat well suited to the conditions. Given it would never be practical to do this at a club level, why not just accept that that it's supposed to be a bit of fun and go out and enjoy yourself? |
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 2:38pm |
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Maybe.
Supposing there was coherent evidence that the demographic of Laser sailing on PY was changing, resulting in a drift in their performance? Should fixing the Laser make any different to the Laser: <any boat> ratio? Are you just asking that every value in the 2017 list is multiplied by 600/1097 and every value in last year's list by 600/1095? Apart from rounding errors, I cannot see that would have any impact on the e.g. RS400:Merlin ratio. Maybe those rounding errors inject noise into the system. It would be interesting to run the process over many years data and see if it helps things converge. |
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PeterG
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Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 7:35pm |
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I can't see any merit.
Having a fixed comparator may seem attractive at first sight, but what is the actual benefit? All that matters is that the relatives remain correct. And you then create the problem, that others have raised that if your fixed point moves, as it can legitimately under PY you have to fiddle everything else. |
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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KazRob
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 22 Oct 16 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 245 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 8:29pm |
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It's worth reading 'Yacht Rating' by Peter Johnson just to understand how much the search for a perfect sailing handicap system is a futile one. But it has occupied many a mind in both inventiveness and protection of vested interests. A fab book. |
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OK 2249
D-1 138 |
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KazRob
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 22 Oct 16 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 245 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 8:35pm |
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(oh and a serious question for iGRF). I've just bought a big ol' raceboard (Equipe II) for a bit of all-weather summer windsurfing. Any idea what PY I could use if I wanted to join in with a bit of club racing just for a bit of fun?
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OK 2249
D-1 138 |
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423zero
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Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 10:29pm |
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No.
All this hysteria is totally unnecessary, PY is not set in stone, clubs can locally adjust.
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 11:07pm |
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NO- Laser sailing is riddled with variables in its own right. Using it as a benchmark, beyond its generous offering of real world results data for PY, is utter preposterous
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 17 at 11:18pm |
Equipe 2 with a 7.5 Raceboard sail we suggested 950 up to force 4 and 800 at Force 4 and above. With a 9.5 Sail up to force 4 850 and 800 at Force 4 and above. That was a few years back now, I'm not sure what we're currently racing them off I think it settled around 875 which was about the speed of a Musto Skiff. |
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