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GRF: Handicapping windsurfers |
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Sam.Spoons 
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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 Topic: GRF: Handicapping windsurfersPosted: 07 Dec 16 at 8:14am |
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Are you sure they're not closet FW sailors?
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GarethT
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Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714 |
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Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 7:56am |
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The formula sailors would love our club ....... Plenty of comfy chairs and a bar to watch the racing from whilst waiting for the wind to be just right (a bit like Goldilocks).
My son has been really pleased with the welcome he's had from all the dinghy racers. The only dissent has been from 2 old ladies who never race anyway! |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 06 Dec 16 at 10:28pm |
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Then you have the dreaded (by dinghies and raceboard sailors alike) Formula One...... sorry Windsurfing. They take the on/off characteristics of a sailboard to the extreme, they are either floundering around at 2 knots or flying along at 20+.... Slower than an Opti off the plane and faster than a Moth (by a good margin) on it..... 1662/520 anybody?
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 06 Dec 16 at 10:30pm |
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sargesail
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Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Posted: 06 Dec 16 at 10:13pm |
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Starts are a challenge too. On Saturday I just caught sight of Gareth's son in my peripheral at about 40 seconds to go and suddenly realised that he must be racing if he was in that position at the end of the line. 40 seconds later and we were starting just to leeward of him as he pumped off. And that's the other challenge: dinghies that move, windsurfers that sit still!
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 06 Dec 16 at 2:13pm |
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Having boards race with dinghies under PY can be good fun, but the course will influence the results, as will the wind strength. That might average out over a series, or it might not. There are other issues. When you get a crowded mark rounding, it seems hard for boards to either get fair treatment because they don't point and get killed by dirty air, or to fulfill their obligations to other competitors. I think it's generally just a bad idea except on open water with few marks and obstructions. Or a few times a year as a novelty. The spreadsheet is the least of the problems, it only matters once we're ashore. Much better to get the boards out on a different evening? |
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 06 Dec 16 at 9:44am |
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We don't have access to IC's the only consistent comparison we had when we were trying to set the bar, was a well sailed MPS which over the water would give as good as it got against our Raceboard 9.5's weather dependant, which meant at either end the board would get it, but in the middle if the MPS played a downwind blinder he got it, if not the boards would, but so often the course we race around, triangle sausage meant the MPS didn't always get to maximise the kite so the board handicap increased.
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 06 Dec 16 at 4:14am |
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Down here "open class" boards, which are the description that best fits the modern 9.5m Raceboards, sail off a yardstick 0.5% quicker than an International Canoe. That seems to be pretty fair to me, as a Raceboard and Canoe sailor. At the other end of the scale the original Windsurfer (in its 80s modification as raced here and in Italy) is similar to a Laser, which again seems about right to me as a Windsurfer and Laser sailor.
For interclub racing I think we put the RSXs on a yardstick 5% slower than a long Raceboard, or about 1% quicker than a Fireball and 0.4% slower than a 400. That was, however, a bit of a guess going off our gut feeling and (I think) some numbers calculated off our experience with the roughly similar Prodigy hybrid. As others have said, it gets basically impossible to get an accurate handicapping system going for boards against boats on any one day. The other thing is that I think that the relationship between boards and boats is more dependent on the type of water than with other craft; I'd almost think it was fairer to race our F18 cat against a 400 on handicap than it is to race a RSX against a 400.
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 16 at 11:04am |
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Well the idea of the PY is to encourage mixed sailing craft to compete together and as I'm sure is the case with 90% of even you bandit loving dinghyists, it's the taking part we enjoy the most. I just wish there was a more inclusive attitude to young windsurfers from our sports alleged governing body.
Next year it will be forty years exactly since a few of us raised our hands to agree to the RYA becoming our governing body and one of the promises was more access to sailing clubs and their waters, in return for them being able to take on the mantle of instruction from the then IWS, lots of us feel they failed to deliver that access and other than delivering an OBE award winning insurance service have done little for the adult grass roots. Edited by iGRF - 05 Dec 16 at 11:05am |
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GarethT
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Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 16 at 8:08am |
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Agreed. Once he's done enough races to have some data to look at it will be a better conversation. He said his struggles today were more down to the angles he could sail on the relatively short legs, where the spinnaker boats could go much lower but he had to go high to get on the plane. Ultimately it's just a bit of fun and he gets a lot more out of it than training on his own. If it was about winning handicap prizes he'd get a 2000! 
With a bit more experience he'll just figure out who he should be racing for a given condition (be it the Musto Skiff, RS400s, D-Zeros, or whatever) and gauge his success by that rather than the output of a spreadsheet! |
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sargesail
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Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Posted: 04 Dec 16 at 10:56pm |
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Gareth I'd say 1082 would have been pretty generous today! But it's all about perspective!
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