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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 May 16 at 9:06pm
Just a quick one.

You hit the mark on rounding, but pass it on the correct side. In doing your turn, you hit it again. Another turn needed, or not?
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 16 at 9:41pm
I should think you deserve to do another turn, just for being so clumsy.
I thought you could do turn anywhere, anytime before end of race ?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 16 at 10:40pm
The turn needs to be as soon as possible, clear of other boats.

I was asked this by a Hansa Liberty keelboat sailor. The Liberty doesn't bear away well, and the sailor has limited neck mobility, so clumsy is a given, really. However, he is also an excellent sailor, and the world's are coming up, so clarification needed!
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 16 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I thought you could do turn anywhere, anytime before end of race ?

1) No - "as soon after the incident as possible"
44.2 One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of the line before finishing.

2) You're still racing while you take your penalty, so hitting a mark again is a second breach of 31. Also, arguably you haven't got well clear, so haven't fulfilled that requirement of 44.2. Yes, a second one-turn penalty is required. Get well clear, this time. 

31 TOUCHING A MARK While racing, a boat shall not touch a starting mark before starting, a mark that begins, bounds or ends the leg of the course on which she is sailing, or a finishing mark after finishing.


Edited by Presuming Ed - 13 May 16 at 11:51pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 16 at 8:18am
Thank you.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 16 at 9:29am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by 423zero

I thought you could do turn anywhere, anytime before end of race ?

1) No - "as soon after the incident as possible"
44.2 One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of the line before finishing.

2) You're still racing while you take your penalty, so hitting a mark again is a second breach of 31. Also, arguably you haven't got well clear, so haven't fulfilled that requirement of 44.2. Yes, a second one-turn penalty is required. Get well clear, this time. 

31 TOUCHING A MARK While racing, a boat shall not touch a starting mark before starting, a mark that begins, bounds or ends the leg of the course on which she is sailing, or a finishing mark after finishing.
The obligation in rule 44.2 is to get well clear of other boats.  There is no obligation in rule 44.2 to get well clear of the mark.  That obligation arises by inference from the obligation in rule 31.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 16 at 11:38am
Originally posted by 423zero

I thought you could do turn anywhere, anytime before end of race ?


That's a special for (some?) match racing, its not standard RRS.

Originally posted by Brass

The obligation in rule 44.2 is to get well clear of other boats. There is no obligation in rule 44.2 to get well clear of the mark.
Usually of course there will be other boats near the mark. If they've all gone you're really having a bad day!

Edited by JimC - 14 May 16 at 11:41am
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 16 at 5:10pm
I have been trying to remember where I got this from,I have looked through racing rules, nothing.

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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 16 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I have been trying to remember where I got this from,I have looked through racing rules, nothing.

Americas Cup or similar on TV or youtube I expect.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 16 at 6:40pm
Not a visual source, I think its from Twiname, so probably out of date anyway.
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