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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Dec 15 at 12:17pm
Help in making sure your phone doesn't die.
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 7:12pm
Which one is the outside assistance, the mobile phone or the handing it to the committee boat?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by JimC

We modify RRS41 in our club (but not Open Meeting) SIs.

20 RRS Rule 41 is modified to add:
e) Help to safely re-board a boat
f) During Saturday B2B handicap series for coaching from the race team and/or club coaches. Boats requesting coaching assistance must display a red ribbon prominently on shrouds, mast or boom. Coaching will as far as possible be spread fairly amongst the boats requesting assistance.

The reason for the first is that we don't consider it a good idea for the most junior or most senior sailors to spend extended time in the water, esp possibly very cold winter water, and by the time they've righted the boat and a safety boat has helped them back in they'll have lost plenty of time anyway.
As for the second, the Saturday series is our 'entry level' series, so some gentle coaching reduces the barrier to starting out.

e) Seems sensible to me. I seem to recall we have something similar at Hunts.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 4:37pm
We modify RRS41 in our club (but not Open Meeting) SIs.

20 RRS Rule 41 is modified to add:
e) Help to safely re-board a boat
f) During Saturday B2B handicap series for coaching from the race team and/or club coaches. Boats requesting coaching assistance must display a red ribbon prominently on shrouds, mast or boom. Coaching will as far as possible be spread fairly amongst the boats requesting assistance.

The reason for the first is that we don't consider it a good idea for the most junior or most senior sailors to spend extended time in the water, esp possibly very cold winter water, and by the time they've righted the boat and a safety boat has helped them back in they'll have lost plenty of time anyway.
As for the second, the Saturday series is our 'entry level' series, so some gentle coaching reduces the barrier to starting out.

Edited by JimC - 10 Dec 15 at 4:39pm
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 4:23pm

  1. OUTSIDE HELP

    A boat shall not receive help from any outside source, except

    1. (a)  help for a crew member who is ill, injured or in danger;

    2. (b)  after a collision, help from the crew of the other vessel to get clear;

    3. (c)  help in the form of information freely available to all boats;

    4. (d)  unsolicited information from a disinterested source, which may be another boat in the same race.

    However, a boat that gains a significant advantage in the race from help received under rule 41(a) may be protested and penalized; any penalty may be less than disqualification.

     
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by NickM

Actually I see Rule 41 refers to "Outside Help" rather than assistance - before somebody points that out. I expect there is an Oxford Dictionary definition of "help" too.

So it does. That'll teach me. Grrrr. iPads and quoting and multiple Windows.RTFM. 

Anyway, the dictionary definition of help. 

Definition of help in English:

verb

[WITH OBJECT]
1Make it easier or possible for (someone) to do something by offering them one’s services or resources:they helped her with domestic chores[WITH OBJECT AND INFINITIVE]: she helped him find a buyer[NO OBJECT]: the teenager helped out in the corner shop
Improve (a situation or problem); be of benefit to:upbeat comments about prospects helped confidence[NO OBJECT]: legislation to fit all new cars with catalytic converters will help
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 3:11pm
We had an incident at Hunts where the RO finished the race improperly. As a result a number of boats did not sail through the line, I was one.

As I was pulling my boat out the RO started shouting at boats they they had not finished. I asked if I had, he said no. So I said I was therefore requesting redress and will protest if he continues to give help/assistance to those still on the water.

When I pointed out his error he looked a little sheepish and there were a large number of RDG given in the results.


Edited by jeffers - 10 Dec 15 at 3:12pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 3:04pm
Gordon, while I used phrasing which suited the tone of this thread, I kind of meant roughly what you said, and I have no objection to clear meanings.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 2:42pm
Rupert,

 You said 'Assistance too difficult to spell, maybe?' Or it this a laudable attempt to use simple English that will be understood by the vast majority of users of the Racing Rules, who do not English as their first language.

Gordon
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 15 at 12:46pm
Yup, that is a great example, grumph.
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