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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spy photos
    Posted: 12 Apr 07 at 11:14pm
Oh dear stu. Boats designed/bullt to 60kgs but bumped up to meet the class rules will be the same speed as others. As they would still have the same attributes etc just with a bit of lead in them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 07 at 11:23pm

Originally posted by Strawberry

Italian Bistro: Designed in 1989, and won every nationals until the next rule change in 1997. What I call getting it right first time.

So the first drawing of the boat was the design which actually went forward to build? If that isn't the case, it wasn't right first time. Design is a repetitive process where you have to fine tune things such as sail design and develope upon key ideas. The reason that the Bethwaites and many other designers have been successful is due to their research and development processes. Read any half decent book about sailboat design and one of the first things they state is "design is an iterative process" which contradicts the idea of getting it right the first time is the way to go.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 07 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by Strawberry

Italian Bistro: Designed in 1989, and won every nationals until the next rule change in 1997. What I call getting it right first time.


Actually the 94 and 95 Nationals were won by Pasta Frenzy, Dave Roe's second design. The Bistro was designed with much careful thought and a lot of programming on an HP calculator: it was no fag packet and luck design! It was a great boat, but I think in 92/93 the Simon Roberts designs were faster. Those were the precursors of what has become the Daemon. Dave/Wendy in 92 and Dave/Helen in 93 were unquestionably the fastest crews, and crew speed always trumps boat speed.

The comparison between the GT60 and the Daemon will be very interesting. FWIW my guess is that the Daemon will be faster in top speed, but the GT60 will be easier to sail, and capable of being driven a little harder when the Daemon has to be backed off a bit. The trials will be a rare opportunity to compare boats with equal crews.

I could of course be completely wrong. Its suprising how rarely one really gets to compare boats on the level, and my theories about the effects of the differences in shape between the two boats could be arrant nonsense!

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SetSail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Iain C

GT60 really does look the nuts!


except they had to name it the GT60......why why why?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote olly_love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 7:46am
i will have to have a look when i am back in suffolk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 10:03am
I though for a bit that the GT60 had the biggest tiller extension on the planet...


On a serious point I am interested by the mains leech profile, it looks to me as if this is the first time I have seen modern floppy leech windsurfing sail design ideas being employed on a dinghy. Or it could be just the photo or the battens not being set correctly. It will be interesting to see her sail in some wind, and to see if the sail blades as automaticaly from mast tip to second batten as it looks like it will.

BTW top spying Mark! See does look a mightly fine ship. She is designed within the Cherub rules? Do we know for sure? Or is she a 13ft something dinghy.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave Chiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 10:44am

Hi everyone and thanks for your views on the boat.

To answer a few questions - The boat was designed for a crew weight of 125 to 140 kg (ish) so that Andy and I could be sure it would work with our 138 or so lard - the fact that this 'payload' sits right in the criteria for the ISAF boat was one of the factors that made us decide to go for it. I think the weight of the boat will be a bonus as it lowers sheet loads and makes it easy to manhandle on and off of trailers etc - an important part of any design.

Why GT60? Well I'm a bit bored of classes saying they are the Formula 1 of sailing - In my view the only way you could say that is if you have a fleet of 30 Sail Rockets  - That would be F1!  I also think Touring Cars and GT cars are more fun to watch and have a bit more real life about them - so GT it was... 60 for 60kg, but surely that's ok - 5o5 for 5.05m, 49er for 4.9m, 10sqm Sharpie... Why not name one after it's weight?

At the end of the day the focus of this boat is to be a really good Cherub, with everything on it state of the art. The foils are Dave Hollam's brilliant 2006 sections, the sails are indeed a cat/windsurfer development, a similar shape of which nailed the top 3 at the 14 worlds in 2006 (as did the majority of the hull form) and we are sure will become a lot more prevalent in the next couple of years - after all if the boat were to win selection, it would have to look fresh in 2012, so you have to be a bit forward of the curve!

Some of the stuff that is on the boat, the pics do not show. The jib sheeting system is asymmetric to work perfectly in the high pressure situations on the race course, and yet still function well everywhere else; the kite-chute has a roller in the mouth of it to reduce the drag of a wet kite pull down; the wing on the rudder is asymmetric and is pulling lift equal to 2.5degrees from a symmetrical shape at 0 degrees angle of attack - and it has a range of 12 degrees (+7, -5) and boy does that make it fly... the list goes on, but time does not permit - after all, we're booked on a ferry to France this afternoon.

Olly - come and see us when we get back - and if anyone wants to see her, give us a call. We'll be putting a blog of the build up on the carbonology.com site as soon as we get back.

Cheers for now, Dave Chisholm.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 10:45am
and now for something totally different....




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 11:43am

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

and now for something totally different....




 

What the hell??

 



Edited by Contender 541
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 07 at 11:44am
hows that meant to work?
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