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alstorer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Mar 09 at 10:59am
Originally posted by MerlinMags

I think Steve has been seized by the enthusiasm of the convert, thats all. He's suddenly discovered something new, that seems to work for him, and of course he wants to share it. Many of us do the same in different ways when we discover something that makes an impact on our lives


that's wonderful, but he should be careful what he puts into his adverts (and, as I think you've yourself explained, "news" from the likes of Rooster IS paid-for advertising, which keeps the site running) lest they be open to ASA challenges. he is, after all, a convert to something that the body of literature suggests is a placebo at best, sham at worst.

I second the recommendation to read Bad Science. It is eye-opening.
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Al
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Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 09 at 10:56am

May I recommend Ben Goldacre's excellent book 'Bad Science'.  It dicusses the Placebo effect in great detail and examines plenty of alternative therapies and why they appear to work.  It should be compulsory reading for all arts graduates dominating the national press! 
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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Posts: 588 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 09 at 9:45am
I think Steve has been seized by the enthusiasm of the convert, thats all. He's suddenly discovered something new, that seems to work for him, and of course he wants to share it. Many of us do the same in different ways when we discover something that makes an impact on our lives
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 1:08pm

Originally posted by Mark Jardine


We do have a discussion option with all news articles - feel free to put your opinions! You never know though - this might just work for Steve's hip!

Mark,

I think the discussion on news articles being seperate from the forum dosn't work ... there are 2 threads now on this issue ... is it possible to link the two systems otherwise you just end up with parallel discussions.
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From:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/ak.h tml

Research Findings

Although the claims of applied kinesiology are so far removed from scientific reality that testing them might seem a waste of time, competent researchers have subjected the muscle-testing procedures to several well-designed controlled tests and demonstrated what should be obvious to rational persons. Some have found no difference in muscle response from one substance to another, while others have found no difference between the results with test substances and with placebos.


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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 10:02am
Right, some prelim stuff. With regards the "AK test" done by the dentist mentioned in paragraph 5- am I right in thinking it involved holding sealed phials containing the substances near the face? If so, this short article from the BMJ is all the comment required.
More, later. This is fun!
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Al
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 9:50am
Originally posted by The Article Author

My hip feels more comfortable ...


Originally posted by Mark Jardine

  You never know though - this might just work for Steve's hip!


Im sure the resultant reduction in weight of his wallet will reduce the discomfort on his hip!

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 8:30am
It may. But there's no evidence AK actually works in the way it is claimed- chiropody in general is on pretty shaky ground.

It's a trust issue, more than anything else. I think most people here respect Steve's ability and knowledge as relates to sailing and sailing equipment. This article abuses that trust by using that repect to try and flog us something medical instead.

There's various tricks, classics of this sort of story- for instance, the recommendation from Steve's friend, who appears to be (and here's a suprise for any followers of Bad Science) a pill salesman? Again, no disrepect to his sailing abilities, but by "qualified doctor" is he a medical doctor, a doctor of philosophy (PhD by accreidited insitution) or even (worst case) a doctor like Gillian McKeith is?

But all this shouldn't matter- it shouldn't be about perosnalities, or "my good friend", or a single positive annecdote from a "trustworthy" source. It should be about verifiable efficiacy. And it shouldn't be in an advertorial on a sailing site.

I'm going to do more digging later. I have actual work to do in the meantime.
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Al
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 7:34am
Originally posted by alstorer

a "testimonial" type article with no criticism, no discussion of the efficiacy, the potential risks- hell, no discussion of the costs involved.


We do have a discussion option with all news articles - feel free to put your opinions! You never know though - this might just work for Steve's hip!
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 7:27am
And really, it is a CLASSIC example of a quackery puff-piece- a "testimonial" type article with no criticism, no discussion of the efficiacy, the potential risks- hell, no discussion of the costs involved. Just one apparently satisfied customer.

I like to know from Steve: are you getting anything in return from Wolfgang for your promotional efforts?
-_
Al
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