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% penalty for winning races

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bigwavedave View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 12:24pm

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

Not everyone can win, thats life.

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Ian S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 1:32pm

I've got a lot of sympathy for Alex with this idea, anything which encourages new sailors to get stuck in has got to be a good idea.  Think of it from a newbies point of view, fancy sailing, do course, spend probably £1500 on a boat, get shouted at on start line, finish last, last in to changing rooms, bar etc, gives up..

Something like this gives a tangible feeling of progress as they see their handicap altering.  We run very successful Personal HGandicap prizes at major club events, on occassion the event winner picks up the ph prize if they've excelled themselves, and  mid and back end fleet are happy to pick it up if they've sailed well.

If club legend gets upset then I suspect that they either don't care about newbies taking part or are happy being the biggest fish in a small pond. 

If you don't encourage your new intake then after natural attrition you'll end up with no one sailing..  just my 2 p's worth

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 3:37pm
This is sometimes called a Golf Handicap system. They're widely used sailing events in in Australia, even at very major regattas, and certainly don't seem to have done golf any harm. Good thing to try IMHO. Actually I have a thought for something we could do for our club Wednesday series...
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by bigwavedave

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

Not everyone can win, thats life.

Exactly.

Why should I bother to give any thought to my boat or my sailing when the effect will be dialled out in the final results. Best just turn up and see what happens, maybe sail badly when it doesn't matter to help when it does matter, maybe give up and do a sport where I'll get rewarded to investing time and effort.

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AlexM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by bigwavedave

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

Not everyone can win, thats life.

Exactly.

Why should I bother to give any thought to my boat or my sailing when the effect will be dialled out in the final results. Best just turn up and see what happens, maybe sail badly when it doesn't matter to help when it does matter, maybe give up and do a sport where I'll get rewarded to investing time and effort.

I think your missing the point?  the top guys are still going to win the series just maybe a Mr Loser might have his day in one of the races of that series, which will mean more to him than the top guy actually winning the series!

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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 08 at 1:28pm

As others have said: Keep it for just one of your series, so you can encourage a different set of people into the sailing and racing. We use Sunday racing for the out and out winner takes all, and the Wednesday Evening is run as a personal handicap pursuit race. Typically we get 50-60 boats on a Sunday, and 60-70 on a Wednesday evening. (Want to join us? Burghfield at J12 on the M4).

The details and calculations involved in the personal handicap are all published on the web site and everyone knows in advance how far they have moved the last week: There is of course a prize for the highest personal handicap, to provide something for the experts.

Over the last 3 or 4 years, with 18 races on Wednesday each year, we have had only one person win 2 races in one year - so it does seem to allow the winning of races to be shared. Do the club champs still race? Certainly over the last 2 or 3 years the prize for highest handicap has been fought over by 2 different National Champions: yet beginners can be out in the same race competing against them.

We use a scheme where the top 1/2 of boats get a varying number of seconds added to their start time (start later), while the lower half get seconds removed from their start time. All differences are cumulative and are based on seconds difference: but you actually start at a rounded 30 second start time.

 

Cheers, Chris

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 08 at 4:47pm

Originally posted by bigwavedave

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

You could see it as penalising success, but there is another way to look at it:-

So you have all the top kit, put in loads of hours on the water and have a personal coach. You are probably going to be at or very near the top in most club events you enter, but if this is seen as a foregone conclusion by your competitors they have little incentive to go out? In time this is bad for competition so you are the top of an ever decreasing field.

If, however you have a self adusting personal handicap system you give some incentive to the middle of the fleet and actually give back some competition the the guys at the top because they have to keep improving to stay in front. Everyone is a winner!

Of course you still need you scratch handicap series so the guys at the top are still rewaded for their work/skill and so the middle of the fleet can judge how they are improving (if at all) in the 'real world'... whatever that is.



Edited by Matt Jackson
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