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Olympic Classes for 2012
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 10:36am

Originally posted by G.R.F.

A 470 hull does plane.

Absolutely, but they're not very good at going really fast, due to the round hull. At top speed, they get a bit unstable compared to say, a Fireball. You need chines to go properly fast.

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Now the way a 470 is currently set up, you wouldn't even try sailing high,
you'd bung up the kite and dead run, ...

Actually, they use a big range of downwind angles. From 0 to about to 6 knots they sail high angles, heeled to leeward. From 6knots right through the medium wind range, the angle gets lower. In 12 knots, you'd almost always sail one dead flat, almost dead downwind, using the waves. In the upper wind ranges, they go back to sailing hot angles, first with the helm sat to leeward and crew trapezing , and then sometimes with the helm to windward when it's really windy.

In many wind conditions, there's virtually no difference between sailing deep and sailing hot downwind. You can switch between either mode at will, which can open up very interesting tactical considerations such as sailing deep for part of a leg, then heating up to go and get in some breeze in a different area.

I'm glad the 470W was kept in for the reasons Jim gave, and because I really like the boat, but I can see the point about the 29er sailors continuing into the xx or similar in the future.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Interesting comments from John Derbyshire:
article=144215">http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?
article=144215



Derbyshire continued: “I am disappointed, however, that the sport has
missed an opportunity to showcase a new women’s class to the world in
2012 with the 29erXX, which I think would have seen many young British
girls continuing to compete after their youth days were over.”



He's got a point IMO


 

'

Why would the number of British girls who go on to sail the 29erXX be
any higher (in proportion to the number of female sailors) than the
number of British boys who go on to sail 49ers, or higher than the
number of British girls who go on to sail 470s?

We still seem to be having many people who decry 'lost opportunities"
without explaining WHY faster boats would attract more sailors, in a
world where 'slower' boats are what, in reality, attract the vast majority of
sailors.


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JimC View Drop Down
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I'm still getting this year's figures in, and the data is very variable, what with classes that first send their worldwide sales and then no data at all, but a look at the RCR stats suggests that two string sales across all classes in the mid to late 00s are running at about half what they were in the mid to late 90s.

So, Mr Derbyshire, I don't know what the *boys* who've moved on from the 29er are competing in now, but it isn't immediately obvious that they've chosen high performance boats in significant numbers over the generations that didn't have 29ers in their teens. I don't see enough of my club's male graduates to really hazard a guess what they are doing.

Edited by JimC
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Nick Peters View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 11:43am

In comparison to the lifestyle change, travel, discipline and sacrifice that an olympic campaign entails the choice of boat is certainly not the be all and end all. I cannot see it affecting many young sailors decisions and I doubt there would have been any more xx sailors than 470. That is the nature of olympic sailing.

Many top youth sailors do of course continue competing at top level outside of the olympic arena - check out the RS200 / RS800 amongst many other adult classes. Not to mention Team and Match racing. Certainly RYA stock will end up pretty low with some of these sailors if the choice of a healthy level of competition in an non-olympic adult class is labelled as giving up! John Derbyshire did badly need to qualify his statement with "at Olympic level".

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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Nick Peters

John Derbyshire did badly need to qualify his statement with "at Olympic level".


To be fair he might well have done. One can never rely on press releases as a guide to what someone actually said, let alone thinks!
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Originally posted by Chris 249

 We still seem to be having many people who decry 'lost opportunities"  without explaining WHY faster boats would attract more sailors, in a world where 'slower' boats are what, in reality, attract the vast majority of
sailors.

That argument is a fallacy at two levels.

In terms of attracting people into the sport, what they see on TV that might encourage them to try sailing and they kind of boats they'd actually learn to sail are two different things entirely. Wannabe snowboarders are inspired by programmes showing Fearless Freddy launching himself down some near-vertical couloir but they actually then go and spend weeks learning on the nursery slopes.

Secondly, who says that Olympic classes should be suitable for "vast majority of sailors" anyway? These are elite sailors. Why shouldn't they be sailing highly athletic classes?

The only reason the 470 is widely distributed internationally is because it has long been an Olympic class. Any new class selected will, over time, gain similar distribution.

Selecting the 49er was a bold and successful move. It's a shame another opportunity for ISAF to lead the sport has been fluffed.

 
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Chris 249

 We still seem to be having many people who decry 'lost opportunities"  without explaining WHY faster boats would attract more sailors, in a world where 'slower' boats are what, in reality, attract the vast majority of
sailors.

That argument is a fallacy at two levels.

In terms of attracting people into the sport, what they see on TV that might encourage them to try sailing and they kind of boats they'd actually learn to sail are two different things entirely. Wannabe snowboarders are inspired by programmes showing Fearless Freddy launching himself down some near-vertical couloir but they actually then go and spend weeks learning on the nursery slopes.

Secondly, who says that Olympic classes should be suitable for "vast majority of sailors" anyway? These are elite sailors. Why shouldn't they be sailing highly athletic classes?

The only reason the 470 is widely distributed internationally is because it has long been an Olympic class. Any new class selected will, over time, gain similar distribution.

Selecting the 49er was a bold and successful move. It's a shame another opportunity for ISAF to lead the sport has been fluffed.

 

 

Well said.

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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 1:26pm
Would it have happened had the Olympics not been going to Sydney though?
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NeilP View Drop Down
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Posts: 271 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 1:30pm
And who in their right mind would claim the 470 isn't a highly athletic class?? Tell that to Christina!
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 08 at 1:45pm
I'm not sure by which definition it is slow either...
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