Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
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damp_freddie ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Oct 05 Location: Aruba Online Status: Offline Posts: 339 |
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I think that was toppers Idea
but turboing a 600 when you have a perfectly good 700 or MPS.... |
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vscott ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 181 |
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I have great memories of my parents' Jolly Boat in Chichester Harbour. Planed beautifully but the genoa took a lot of getting in. Now I'm in an Osprey which is close.... |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Best boat I ever sailed (and owned in fact) was a Jacksnipe, Jack Holt's answer to the Fireball. Exciting, easy to sail and easily the best behaved boat I've known when capsized. It had a double-bottom with footwells for the helm, would sit indefinitely on its side without turtling yet self-drained just fine when up again. Poor build quality and poor marketing let it down though. Closest thing today is the 3000, easy-peasy, but great fun. I gather the V3000 with its sealed mast is also reluctant to turtle. |
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Dave389 ![]() Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Dec 05 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 17 |
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The vortex is not a cat its a tunnel hull, a cat by definition has two hulls, and im sure the last time I looked the vortex only had one. Yes i'm a cat sailor but i have also sailed the vortex as my old crew had one as a toy they do handle a bit like a cat and some of the techniques used in cat sailing do work well on the vortex but when you get half the hull out the water they dont go any faster where one hull out the water on a cat sure makes a big difference in terms of speed. and as with the EPS the vortex has some build issues IMHO ps cut my teeth racing ents and fireballs many moons ago and for what its worth the fire brick was and still is a great boat to sail. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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But what's the difference between a tunnel hull and a catamaran? Does
the Vortex actually only have one hull? What's the definition of
a "hull"?
I'm pretty sure all of the tunnel-hull powerboats are/were called cats, not monos; certainly most are, whether or not they have an air gap between the hulls if I remember right. The difference can't just be having a solid bit between the "hulls", because that means old Shearwaters, Yvonnes etc and cruising cats are tunnel hulls. There was a "tunnel hull" racing boat way back in the 1800s; Dominion. It was a big scow, with a tunnel through the centre. Even then, she was often called a catamaran. She was certainly banned because she was too much like one and I'm pretty sure that cat sailors have claimed her as one of their ancestors. Tunnel hull Moths were also banned as being catamarans. Surely if we just try to work out how many "hulls" something has, there's plenty of potential for things to get really messy. If a Vortex is a mono, when what about a modified Vortex with a bigger tunnel and more defined "hulls"? At exactly what stage does it stop being part of a tunnel hull, and one of two separate hulls? How would you define that to keep boats that are effectively cats out of mono racing? Seems to me a boat that has two separate pieces of buoyancy side-by-side and connected has two hulls by definition and is therefore either a cat or a proa. |
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Chew my RS ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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Its definitely a cat, albeit a small one. I'll eat my hat if that hull works effectively as a lift device (far too much weight, too big a gap and not aerodynamic enough). They're not as bad as people make out, but it is definitely a cat. I would call the red moth here a tunnel hull mono http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tsca.net/i mages/Tassie/ODMoth615.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tsca.net /Tassie2.html&h=216&w=350&sz=25&hl=en&st art=9&tbnid=CfnEg5GiNRlqwM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=116& ;prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscow%2Bmoth%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26sa%3DN but even then others might claim its a cat.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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On the other hand you don't really sail the Vortex as a Cat - at least when I tried doing the wild thing downwind in one it don't ome off (unlike me). I call it a one-and-a-half-maran.
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Chew Valley SC seem to count them as monos, as I've seen at least one down there and there's a ban on multihulls. Maybe you could argue it's a monohull if the buoyancy tanks are continuous? Just a thought..
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RS800 GBR848
Weston SC |
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Chew my RS ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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Nice idea Curly, but not so. Buoyancy aint buoyancy if its not in the water and there's no continuous transverse buoyancy below the water on a Vortex. Also I don't think the 'tramp' is hollow, so there's no contiuous reserve buoyancy above the water. Perhaps the difference can be described by the design philosophy. A cat gets its performance due the high initial stability and slender hulls. A tunnel hull gets its performance from being lifted by air, which reduces drag. The Vortex fits this description of a cat, but not the tunnel hull description. Ergo, its a catamaran. The fact that Chew allow them just shows that Bristol Water don't know the difference. |
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No. 5 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Jul 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 115 |
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The vortex has four waterlines, that makes it a cat, surely. I think the vortex is accepted by monohull only clubs because it's dimensions and performance are within the parameters of a lot of monohulls.
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