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Boss with Carbon Hull???

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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boss with Carbon Hull???
    Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 11:43am

Jon Emmett wrote:

I am sorry if it appears I have been too negative regards the Boss. It just seems a shame in a way we have so many small classes in the UK (where you struggle to get half a dozen boats at the Nationals).

 

I just feel it is better racing for everyone if we sail the same class (certainly a higher standard of competition)... rather than lots of different classes!

 

I guess my point is why sail a Boss IF you could sail, for example an RS 800.

49er wrote "People may sail the Boss instead of the 800 because it's a much cheaper boat and also they might be enthusiastic about their class. The best way forward for the Boss may be to hold a joint class association with the 5000 because the boats are similar on handicap. Once the classes are stronger, they could then choose to seperate or keep on growing together."

I am a big fan of the Fast Sail concept and would love to see it expand to other boat genres and to the way we organise club handicap racing in general , e.g. medium performance singlehanders (Byte, Streaker et al), single wire "skiff" (ISO, L4000), two-man hikers (RS400, 59er, Tasar etc), twin wire skiff (L5000, 49er, Cherub, RS800, Boss, I14).  The PY system is much fairer when applied to similar boats like these, but struggles when having to equate a Topper, Tornado and Fireball.

This is also precisely the reason I advocate a series of new formaula classes - see New Development Class thread. If Topper and Laser had worked together rather than competing against each other, the Boss and 5000 might still be selling well (albeit, now as a Boss Mk 4 and Laser 5006). Sailors get the latest developments and the manufacturers get to keep sales going by launching new designs without fragmenting fleets. Another example of this is the new Red Eye boat. It might well be 'better' than a Solo (it should be, otherwise why make it?), but how many people will actually leave an existing class to get one?



Edited by Chew my RS
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 06 at 9:28am
It can be done with small classes. The blaze only has around 250 hulls built and they are regularly in the 50 club (57 last year I think).

I think that the smaller assy classes need to do something along the lines of fastsail.

It takes a lot to organise but as many people have seen the level of publicity it generates is amazing.

I do wonder how much this publicity affected the new Osprey builder (whether or not he would be building if it was not for the Fastsail publicity and hence greater interest in the class).
Paul
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les5269 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 7:32pm

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

but to my way of thinking it is it not much fun racing against 2 boats when you can race against 52! Do you honestly think the BOSS (or the fiver tonners) will ever feature in the "50" club again?

Did they ever ?

49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 5:52pm
Yes I understand the cost issue (hence why I said IF) but to my way of thinking it is it not much fun racing against 2 boats when you can race against 52! Do you honestly think the BOSS (or the fiver tonners) will ever feature in the "50" club in the future? At some point or another the boats will stop be raced actively IMVHO. Simply because there are "better" designs out there to be enjoyed! (Survival of the fittest...)

Edited by Jon Emmett
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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

I am sorry if it appears I have been too negative regards the Boss. It just seems a shame in a way we have so many small classes in the UK (where you struggle to get half a dozen boats at the Nationals).

 

I just feel it is better racing for everyone if we sail the same class (certainly a higher standard of competition)... rather than lots of different classes!

 

I guess my point is why sail a Boss IF you could sail, for example an RS 800.

People may sail the Boss instead of the 800 because it's a much cheaper boat and also they might be enthusiastic about their class. The best way forward for the Boss may be to hold a joint class association with the 5000 because the boats are similar on handicap. Once the classes are stronger, they could then choose to seperate or keep on growing together.

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 5:44pm

Well for starters you can buy a secondhand Boss for a fraction of the cost of a secondhand 800 and get similarish performance. And as far as buying new, the RS800 was introduced quite a few years later.

 

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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 5:38pm

I am sorry if it appears I have been too negative regards the Boss. It just seems a shame in a way we have so many small classes in the UK (where you struggle to get half a dozen boats at the Nationals).

 

I just feel it is better racing for everyone if we sail the same class (certainly a higher standard of competition)... rather than lots of different classes!

 

I guess my point is why sail a Boss IF you could sail, for example an RS 800.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 6:45am
Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

We always saw the Boss as slow older 14s, the boats could never keep up with the 5000s in all conditions but maybe that was just in Scotland?
Could also have been the sailors.
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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 06 at 12:15am
We always saw the Boss as slow older 14s, the boats could never keep up with the 5000s in all conditions but maybe that was just in Scotland?

Edited by 49erGBR735HSC
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 06 at 3:54pm

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Still going to get their arses handed to them on a plate by a Thames A rater! Anyway the whole point of skiffs (and I do not agree that a boss is a skiff...) is racing them when planing!!!
I know this has already been done - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9 86&KW=Skiff but your definition of a skiff is odd. Traditionally an open boat with a sail and no keel, but because the Aussies used it to name development classes over 100 years old, doesn't mean skiff has to mean .....'indicative of a modern Aussie racing skiff (and not an older one)' and for these boats, as you should know Jon planing is a difficult definition to satisfy.

By the definition of old (most dictionarys) the boss is a skiff. By the new 'like and Aussie racing dinghy' definition, it is a Skiff. By your own 'racing while paning' definition it is a skiff for much of the time.

I am no Boss fan, but I feel some people are being negative about the boat here because what? It is a little bit slower than the one you sail? Why not bash the topper or Ent? At the end of the day, NO SMOD's are at the limit of development and having fun on the water should not be defined by a relative concept of speed.



Edited by Bumble
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