New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: protest!!!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

protest!!!
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
tmoore View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Nov 07
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: protest!!!
    Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 5:03pm

during the 12hour junior race i was at this weekend there was a protest.

one boat (port tack) was sailed by an experienced team racer who said he knew he was clearing the starboard boat but wanted to play it safe so tacked instead (on to starboard). the starboard boat thought otherwise and tacked calling to port calling protest neither boats took a penalty.

startboard boat protested with a family member as witness (said he could see a gap between the bow and transom) (from other side of the lake). port tack boat used crew as witness.

what would you do if you were on the protest comittee? (im not saying which boat we were at the moment)

regards tom
Landlocked in Africa
RS300 - 410
Firefly F517 - Nutshell
Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:31pm
I don't think I'd care to call that one without having heard all the evidence...
Back to Top
Villan View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1768 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Villan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:40pm
Did either boat do turns?

You could both be disqualified if not ... Or thats my understanding of the rules?
Vareo - 149 "Secrets"
TandyUK Servers
Back to Top
Worthy View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Dec 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 511 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Villan

Did either boat do turns?

You could both be disqualified if not ... Or thats my understanding of the rules?


Only if there was a collision.
Back to Top
tmoore View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Nov 07
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 8:30pm

Originally posted by JimC

I don't think I'd care to call that one without having heard all the evidence...

what other evidence would you like?

at a different point in the race i was on port and was clearing a starboard tack boat who bore away for no reason. a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved? later up the beat we passed the same boat again (20 metres ahead this time ) and they even said they didnt need to duck. the boat not involved then had a go at me for not taking a penalty. i ignored them as it didnt involve them. should i have taken them to the protest room as i had video evidence we were clear?
Landlocked in Africa
RS300 - 410
Firefly F517 - Nutshell
Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by tmoore

what other evidence would you like?
[snip]
a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved?

You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses.

And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest.

Edited by JimC
Back to Top
Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 11:27pm
And I think you gave away which boat you were....
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
Back to Top
tmoore View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Nov 07
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 10:21am

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by tmoore

what other evidence would you like?
[snip]
a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved?

You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses.

And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest.

thats the way i saw it, that without a proper witness (unbiased) it would be unreasonable to come to a conclusion. we lost the protest and it put us down 2laps and we ended up 8th instead of pushing for the 3rd we were looking at . i have learnt from that though, it never pays to get involved in a protest. (wast me sailing at the time0
Landlocked in Africa
RS300 - 410
Firefly F517 - Nutshell
Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 11:18am
It may be quite reasnable to come to a conclusion without a neutral witness. It frequently has to be done. The PC listens to all the different stories and works out a sequence of events which best fits. That's the facts found. From the facts found they then apply the appropriate rules.
Back to Top
Spyderman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 27 Feb 08
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 3:11pm
In a Port - Starboard Protest, the PC should apply the principles from Case 50 in the Casebook:
ISAF CASE 50
When a protest committee finds that in a port-starboard incident S did not change course and that there was not a genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision on the part of S, it should dismiss her protest. When the committee finds that S did change course and that there was reasonable doubt that P could have crossed head of S if S had not changed course, then P should be disqualified.

In your original question Port stated "playing it safe" which in my opinion, translates into a reasonable apprehension of collision by Starboard. So Port was not keeping clear.

Port has to convince the PC that she was keeping clear and Starboard's change of course was unnecessary.
Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy