protest!!!
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4340
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 7:37pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: protest!!!
Posted By: tmoore
Subject: protest!!!
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 5:03pm
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during the 12hour junior race i was at this weekend there was a protest. one boat (port tack) was sailed by an experienced team racer who said he knew he was clearing the starboard boat but wanted to play it safe so tacked instead (on to starboard). the starboard boat thought otherwise and tacked calling to port calling protest neither boats took a penalty. startboard boat protested with a family member as witness (said he could see a gap between the bow and transom) (from other side of the lake). port tack boat used crew as witness. what would you do if you were on the protest comittee? (im not saying which boat we were at the moment) regards tom ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:31pm
| I don't think I'd care to call that one without having heard all the evidence... |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:40pm
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Did either boat do turns? You could both be disqualified if not ... Or thats my understanding of the rules? ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:48pm
Only if there was a collision. |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 8:30pm
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what other evidence would you like? at a different point in the race i was on port and was clearing a starboard tack boat who bore away for no reason. a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved? later up the beat we passed the same boat again (20 metres ahead this time ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
) and they even said they didnt need to duck. the boat not involved then had a go at me for not taking a penalty. i ignored them as it didnt involve them. should i have taken them to the protest room as i had video evidence we were clear?Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 10:30pm
You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses. And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest. |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 11:27pm
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And I think you gave away which boat you were....
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 10:21am
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thats the way i saw it, that without a proper witness (unbiased) it would be unreasonable to come to a conclusion. we lost the protest and it put us down 2laps and we ended up 8th instead of pushing for the 3rd we were looking at ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
. i have learnt from that though, it never pays to get involved in a protest. (wast me sailing at the time0Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 11:18am
| It may be quite reasnable to come to a conclusion without a neutral witness. It frequently has to be done. The PC listens to all the different stories and works out a sequence of events which best fits. That's the facts found. From the facts found they then apply the appropriate rules. |
Posted By: Spyderman
Date Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 3:11pm
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In a Port - Starboard Protest, the PC should apply the principles from Case 50 in the Casebook: ISAF CASE 50 When a protest committee finds that in a port-starboard incident S did not change course and that there was not a genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision on the part of S, it should dismiss her protest. When the committee finds that S did change course and that there was reasonable doubt that P could have crossed head of S if S had not changed course, then P should be disqualified. In your original question Port stated "playing it safe" which in my opinion, translates into a reasonable apprehension of collision by Starboard. So Port was not keeping clear. Port has to convince the PC that she was keeping clear and Starboard's change of course was unnecessary. ------------- Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com - http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 01 Jul 08 at 12:19pm
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so the port tack boat has to prove themself innocent if the starboard boat makes any change from course. ok, say you were the port tack boat and thought you could clear, how would you go about defending yourself (so this ever happens i know what route i should go down). ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Jul 08 at 12:54pm
| If you're port and you push things hard you are always at risk... Safest not to unless its umpired racing. |
Posted By: Spyderman
Date Posted: 01 Jul 08 at 2:59pm
You can ask questions in the hearing: "Had you crossed before?" and if so "how was the distance in that crossing?" if not, perhaps an earlier distance in mark rounding can give you an argument. Or "Where would starboard have hit you if she had not changed course" The more to the stern, the more likely you had a change... Even a next crossing can give you an argument if the distance there was more then a boat length. "When did they hail?" "Did SB need to release any sheets?" "How fast were the boats going" "When did SB become aware that you - in his mind- could not cross?" I also agree with Jim C. As Keep Clear boat you take a risk: If a crossing is doubtful and SB hails protest, maybe a two rounds penalty is the better alternative? ------------- Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com - http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com |