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Spyderman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Jul 08 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by tmoore

so the port tack boat has to prove themself innocent if the starboard boat makes any change from course. ok, say you were the port tack boat and thought you could clear, how would you go about defending yourself (so this ever happens i know what route i should go down).


You can ask questions in the hearing:
"Had you crossed before?" and if so "how was the distance in that crossing?"
if not, perhaps an earlier distance in mark rounding can give you an argument.
Or "Where would starboard have hit you if she had not changed course" The more to the stern, the more likely you had a change...
Even a next crossing can give you an argument if the distance there was more then a boat length.
"When did they hail?"
"Did SB need to release any sheets?"
"How fast were the boats going"
"When did SB become aware that you - in his mind- could not cross?"

I also agree with Jim C. As Keep Clear boat you take a risk: If a crossing is doubtful and SB hails protest, maybe a two rounds penalty is the better alternative?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 08 at 12:54pm
If you're port and you push things hard you are always at risk... Safest not to unless its umpired racing.
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tmoore View Drop Down
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 08 at 12:19pm
so the port tack boat has to prove themself innocent if the starboard boat makes any change from course. ok, say you were the port tack boat and thought you could clear, how would you go about defending yourself (so this ever happens i know what route i should go down).
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Posts: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 3:11pm
In a Port - Starboard Protest, the PC should apply the principles from Case 50 in the Casebook:
ISAF CASE 50
When a protest committee finds that in a port-starboard incident S did not change course and that there was not a genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision on the part of S, it should dismiss her protest. When the committee finds that S did change course and that there was reasonable doubt that P could have crossed head of S if S had not changed course, then P should be disqualified.

In your original question Port stated "playing it safe" which in my opinion, translates into a reasonable apprehension of collision by Starboard. So Port was not keeping clear.

Port has to convince the PC that she was keeping clear and Starboard's change of course was unnecessary.
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 11:18am
It may be quite reasnable to come to a conclusion without a neutral witness. It frequently has to be done. The PC listens to all the different stories and works out a sequence of events which best fits. That's the facts found. From the facts found they then apply the appropriate rules.
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 10:21am

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by tmoore

what other evidence would you like?
[snip]
a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved?

You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses.

And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest.

thats the way i saw it, that without a proper witness (unbiased) it would be unreasonable to come to a conclusion. we lost the protest and it put us down 2laps and we ended up 8th instead of pushing for the 3rd we were looking at . i have learnt from that though, it never pays to get involved in a protest. (wast me sailing at the time0
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 11:27pm
And I think you gave away which boat you were....
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by tmoore

what other evidence would you like?
[snip]
a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved?

You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses.

And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest.

Edited by JimC
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tmoore View Drop Down
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 8:30pm

Originally posted by JimC

I don't think I'd care to call that one without having heard all the evidence...

what other evidence would you like?

at a different point in the race i was on port and was clearing a starboard tack boat who bore away for no reason. a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved? later up the beat we passed the same boat again (20 metres ahead this time ) and they even said they didnt need to duck. the boat not involved then had a go at me for not taking a penalty. i ignored them as it didnt involve them. should i have taken them to the protest room as i had video evidence we were clear?
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Posts: 511 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Villan

Did either boat do turns?

You could both be disqualified if not ... Or thats my understanding of the rules?


Only if there was a collision.
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