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tmoore View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 5:03pm

during the 12hour junior race i was at this weekend there was a protest.

one boat (port tack) was sailed by an experienced team racer who said he knew he was clearing the starboard boat but wanted to play it safe so tacked instead (on to starboard). the starboard boat thought otherwise and tacked calling to port calling protest neither boats took a penalty.

startboard boat protested with a family member as witness (said he could see a gap between the bow and transom) (from other side of the lake). port tack boat used crew as witness.

what would you do if you were on the protest comittee? (im not saying which boat we were at the moment)

regards tom
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:31pm
I don't think I'd care to call that one without having heard all the evidence...
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Did either boat do turns?

You could both be disqualified if not ... Or thats my understanding of the rules?
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Posts: 511 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Villan

Did either boat do turns?

You could both be disqualified if not ... Or thats my understanding of the rules?


Only if there was a collision.
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tmoore View Drop Down
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 8:30pm

Originally posted by JimC

I don't think I'd care to call that one without having heard all the evidence...

what other evidence would you like?

at a different point in the race i was on port and was clearing a starboard tack boat who bore away for no reason. a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved? later up the beat we passed the same boat again (20 metres ahead this time ) and they even said they didnt need to duck. the boat not involved then had a go at me for not taking a penalty. i ignored them as it didnt involve them. should i have taken them to the protest room as i had video evidence we were clear?
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by tmoore

what other evidence would you like?
[snip]
a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved?

You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses.

And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest.

Edited by JimC
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 08 at 11:27pm
And I think you gave away which boat you were....
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tmoore View Drop Down
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Posts: 880 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 10:21am

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by tmoore

what other evidence would you like?
[snip]
a different boat shouted protest, is that allowed or does it have to be one of the boats involved?

You misunderstand: its so much a he said/she said that the only way I'd want to offer an opinion is if I'd actually listened to the witnesses.

And yes, any boat that sees a rule breach may protest.

thats the way i saw it, that without a proper witness (unbiased) it would be unreasonable to come to a conclusion. we lost the protest and it put us down 2laps and we ended up 8th instead of pushing for the 3rd we were looking at . i have learnt from that though, it never pays to get involved in a protest. (wast me sailing at the time0
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 11:18am
It may be quite reasnable to come to a conclusion without a neutral witness. It frequently has to be done. The PC listens to all the different stories and works out a sequence of events which best fits. That's the facts found. From the facts found they then apply the appropriate rules.
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Posts: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 08 at 3:11pm
In a Port - Starboard Protest, the PC should apply the principles from Case 50 in the Casebook:
ISAF CASE 50
When a protest committee finds that in a port-starboard incident S did not change course and that there was not a genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision on the part of S, it should dismiss her protest. When the committee finds that S did change course and that there was reasonable doubt that P could have crossed head of S if S had not changed course, then P should be disqualified.

In your original question Port stated "playing it safe" which in my opinion, translates into a reasonable apprehension of collision by Starboard. So Port was not keeping clear.

Port has to convince the PC that she was keeping clear and Starboard's change of course was unnecessary.
Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com
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