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    Posted: 17 Mar 08 at 10:48am

Originally posted by Jimbob

At Grafham there are no problems whatsoever having cats and monohulls racing together on the same course. And in the Wednesday evening handicap races using Fast, Medium and Slow Fleets, the boats sailing include Hurricanes, Dart 18s, Sprint 15s, 49ers, Assy Canoes, RS 6 and 700s, Flying Fifteens, Lasers, Solos,and down to Picos and Toppers.
And a Sprint 15 won the Fast Fleet Series in 2006 against the fast monohulls although normally one of the latter usually wins it.       

Hi Jim - yes this is true but it has to be said that on light wind evenings the cats are all well behind the monos and fighting to avoid last place. What makes it tolerable is that there is a biggish group (5-10) of Sprint 15s who take part (plus a couple of Prindle 15s & the odd Dart 18) and they can regard light wind evenings  (mentally) as a race against the other Catamarans. The payback comes on windy evenings when the Cats are very competitive. A well sailed 49er or 29er or IC, etc. howerer, remains competitive across a range of conditions so the cats are at an overall disadvantage. This is made more tolerable by having a big discard allowance on the series (best 7 results to count) so you can often disard more than half your results if you attend lots of the Wednesday Evenings.

Cheers

Bob



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Post Options Post Options   Quote foaminatthedeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 08 at 10:12am
Originally posted by ASok

Originally posted by foaminatthedeck

I have limited experence of racing cats and mono on the same course but I found the experence of being overtaken by a number of Tornado s on a beam reach a most unpleasent experence that I'm not keen to repeat,  I was in the contender so not that slow but the T comming past just went to close for my comfort.  So much so that I think it might put me off a join cat mono open meeting,

I think that there is no finer sight than a Tornado in full flight.  Happy to have them over taking me any day of the week!

 



Yes I'd agree but at the same time they are so much bigger than many of the monos that it can be a little un-nerving when they get close. I am not anti cats just don't want to sail near them if I'm in a small slow boat,

PS although I never realy enjoy being overtaken I have had plenty of experence and I'm just about used to it now .


Edited by foaminatthedeck
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 08 at 9:17am

Originally posted by foaminatthedeck

I have limited experence of racing cats and mono on the same course but I found the experence of being overtaken by a number of Tornado s on a beam reach a most unpleasent experence that I'm not keen to repeat,  I was in the contender so not that slow but the T comming past just went to close for my comfort.  So much so that I think it might put me off a join cat mono open meeting,

I think that there is no finer sight than a Tornado in full flight.  Happy to have them over taking me any day of the week!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jimbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 9:03pm
At Grafham there are no problems whatsoever having cats and monohulls racing together on the same course. We do it all the time on Sundays. And in the Wednesday evening handicap Series using Fast, Medium and Slow Fleets, the boats sailing include Hurricanes, Dart 18s, Sprint 15s, 49ers, Assy Canoes, RS 6 and 700s, Flying Fifteens, Lasers, Solos,and down to Picos and Toppers.
And a Sprint 15 won the Fast Fleet Series in 2006 against the fast monohulls although one of the latter usually wins it.       
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jimbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 9:00pm
At Grafham there are no problems whatsoever having cats and monohulls racing together on the same course. And in the Wednesday evening handicap races using Fast, Medium and Slow Fleets, the boats sailing include Hurricanes, Dart 18s, Sprint 15s, 49ers, Assy Canoes, RS 6 and 700s, Flying Fifteens, Lasers, Solos,and down to Picos and Toppers.
And a Sprint 15 won the Fast Fleet Series in 2006 against the fast monohulls although normally one of the latter usually wins it.       
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by English Dave

Not sure if that would be legal though in large open handicap events.


The organising club can do anything it finds reasonabkle to establish trial numbers for PYs. If sailors don't like what the club does they don't hav to enter... As Cat sailors seem to regard the SCHRS as giving reasonable results then using it to interpolate PY numbers for Cat classes seems eminently sensible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 8:23pm

Do these handicap races include 49ers and the like? At Ballyholme we all sail the same course in the winter (even in the summer we share half of the marks) so there's no reason why cats and mono can't share the same space. But the main problem with handicaps is that cats are so much faster than most monos. So do we sail the same course and finish 20minutes earlier than the rest of you? Or run average lap times?

In the past when we had a 49er fleet we used to race against them because putting a 49er in a handicap race against, say, a Laser is equally meaningless.

The other problem with putting cats against monos is that there aren't proper PY returns for most cats. We race off the formula-based SCHRS because there just aren't enough cats to give decent PY returns. What many do is take those Cats that do have a PY and extrapolate against the SCHRS numbers to give a PY equivalence. Not sure if that would be legal though in large open handicap events.

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(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote oz man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 8:18pm

its never nice to be over taken is it

being passed by a 49er while in a topper probably isnt that great either dont see many clubs turning them away though

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Post Options Post Options   Quote foaminatthedeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 7:18pm
I have limited experence of racing cats and mono on the same course but I found the experence of being overtaken by a number of Tornado s on a beam reach a most unpleasent experence that I'm not keen to repeat,  I was in the contender so not that slow but the T comming past just went to close for my comfort.  So much so that I think it might put me off a join cat mono open meeting,
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 08 at 12:49pm
I agree with Jimbob most modern cats tack quite well now , a couple of years ago i did the birkett trophy at ullswater in my shadow with about 200 other dingies,as you can imagine the atmosphere towards me was slightly tense at times,but I really enjoyed the race and will do it again (if allowed).I just wish some parties could be a little more open minded at these traditional events.
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