Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Race rules advice pls |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:29pm |
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A race committe vessel which is one end of the finish line is within the definition of 'Mark' in bold. Mark An object the sailing instructions require a boat to leave on a specified side, a race committee vessel surrounded by navigable water from which the starting or finishing line extends, and an object intentionally attached to the object or vessel. However, an anchor line is not part of the mark. You should have done your turn and re-crossed the line from the course side, then you would have finished.
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Maybe that's because references to definitions in the RRS are printed in italics. Introduction Terminology A term used in the sense stated in the Definitions is printed in italics Every reference to 'finishing mark' in the RRS has 'mark' italicised. Of course boats are required to leave finishing marks designating the port and starboard on those respective sides in order to finish and comply with rule 28.
If it's big enough, it's an obstruction, but, being a mark, unless it's a continuing obstruction, rule 18 and not rule 19 will apply. See rule 18.1(d). Edited by Brass - 09 May 23 at 8:32pm |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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A boat is generally not required to leave the end of a finishing line to a particular side. It is specifically stated that once any part of the boat has crossed the line, a yacht is not required to fully cross the line after finishing. There is no way in plain English you can say a generic end of a finish line must be left on a particular side, unless the SIs require that. If the ends of a finish line were automatically 'marks' then the definition of 'mark' would not need to add the clause of a committee boat. If the end of a finsih line is a 'mark' then the definition of 'sailing the course would contradict the right to not fully cross the finish line. The rules are what the rules actually say, not any 'you know what they meant to say' /'spirit of the rules' mumbo jumbo.
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ClubRacer ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210 |
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What?
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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How does one define "force a win"? Isn't a person who may be diving into a spot that the other person can (perfectly legally) hold them out of the one who is "forcing a win"? For many people, part of the joy of racing is the interplay of tactical positioning, which depends on using the rules. We love "chess on water". It's not "forcing a win" to use the rules any more than one is "forcing a win" to take your opponent's piece in a chess match. Where does "forcing a win" end? Is covering another sailor "forcing a win" or is it just part of the fun game we play? Personally I find that in the right place it's great fun, and so does everyone I know. If one is a more skilful sailor downwind and therefore causes your competitors to set a kite in a big breeze (risking a broach or capsize) aren't you "forcing" them to do something just as much as if you quietly say "windward boat keep clear please" at a mark in light winds? In many boats, there's actual some risk of physical danger (or danger to the bank account) in the previous scenario so why is that OK but a quiet use of the rules of the game not OK? My other sport is cycling, which is interesting because often the pros force their competitors to either blast down mountains at 90kmh, or drop out the back. The consequences of that "forcing" can be dire and yet it's lauded as part of the game. By the way, I've put in just one protest in my life (during my short-lived teams racing career), never been DSQd apart from getting the course wrong*, and normally try to sail fast and clean, but to me being "clean" includes not putting yourself in the wrong position under the rules of the game. * I didn't retire because there was an extra complication that an international jury took hours to decide
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423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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Racing is a brilliant pastime, something for everyone. My personal experience has been that most sailors race to win by skill.
Edited to add, gives the crew something to do, looking out for infringements, waterproof paper and pen, just incase. Edited by 423zero - 10 May 23 at 8:56am |
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Robert
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Using the rules IS a skill, just as much as any other part of sailing. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything to the contrary, outside of once or twice on this forum. Implying that there's no skill in using the rules at times would imply there's no skill in chess or other games where using the rules is such a part of the challenge. If a grandmaster uses the rules to put the king in mate, that's the use of skill. If a sailor uses the rules to hold someone out at a mark, that's also the use of skill.
As noted earlier, I've only ever protested one person in my life (to decide a teams racing title when I got annoyed with someone breaking the P&S rule) and I'd say that the time the rules are used hardest seems to be when people are out playing around in totally informal fun races against mates, just for a laugh. It's not to be aggressive or to win, it's because it's such a fascinating extra layer of complication to throw over the rest of the sport. While many of the events I love personally don't really allow use or favour of the rules for close-quarter tactics, it's undeniably very skilful and in fact I'd say it dramatically increases the required skill level and reduces the emphasis on buying fast gear.
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423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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I agree with both your posts, nothing wrong with correcting rule breaking, especially if it gains them a win. I personally wouldn't put myself in a position to have to use a rule infringement to win a race, if in a very unlikely occurrence I was called out for rule breaking, even if I disagreed, I wouldn't dispute it.
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Robert
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Old Timer ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Jun 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 370 |
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There is no sport without rules; the whole business is an arbitrary construction to allow fair competition.
I find it bizarre when people come over all offended when someone points out a rule infringement as if it is some kind of slur on their character. Know and respect the rules and play fair ... it is not hard. |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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"A boat finishes when, after starting, any part of her hull crosses the finishing line from the course side." so, by definition, she must pass the port mark to port and the starboard mark to starboard or she can't both cross the line and have approached it from the course side.” When approaching the finish on a beam reach (as is common when back to back races are being held) the fastest route would usually be to windward of other boats, this usually means heading for the windward end of the line, maybe overlapped to windward of another boat.
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 10 May 23 at 5:14pm |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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