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Old Timer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 May 23 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I have read through all the links off this thread, finish line more ambiguous than the start line. I personally wouldn't cut someone off, but I probably wouldn't change course to let them through.

If you wouldn't change course then you would cut them off by definition if they needed room.

Yeeha .... cowboy ...  Smile

You have to give room at a finish mark just like you do at every other mark. The exception is the start mark which is detailed.


Edited by Old Timer - 09 May 23 at 3:23pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 5:32pm
I wouldn't do anything, for the simple reason, I would never get in a position to have to give room at the mark. 

My opinion of boats that know they have to get to the finish line, is, they should get themselves in a position where they can get over, 'not' use the rules to force someone out of the way, causing them to lose a position that would have got 'them' over the line, could potentially have been a win.
Robert
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Posts: 67 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 6:18pm
What happens if you hit the committee boat, which is one end of the line?
This happened a few years back, when I was beating to the finish line, cross-tacking with the leading boat on the final leg.

During my final tack, there was a gust which made me heel more than anticipated and my mast touched the committee boat, but almost at the same time I crossed the line and received a finish.

I then did a 360 turn, and it was decided that instead of 2nd place I should be awarded 3rd, as in the time it took for me to do a 360, had I been racing still, the boat behind might have caught up.

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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Gfinch

What happens if you hit the committee boat, which is one end of the line?
This happened a few years back, when I was beating to the finish line, cross-tacking with the leading boat on the final leg.

During my final tack, there was a gust which made me heel more than anticipated and my mast touched the committee boat, but almost at the same time I crossed the line and received a finish.

I then did a 360 turn, and it was decided that instead of 2nd place I should be awarded 3rd, as in the time it took for me to do a 360, had I been racing still, the boat behind might have caught up.



You broke rule 31 Touching a Mark.

You took a One Turn Penalty for breaking rule 31 which was the applicable penalty under rule 44.2.

You took your penalty after you had crossed the finishing line, so that crossing of the finishing line didn't count as your finish.

Definitions:Finish Finish A boat finishes when, after starting, any part of her hull crosses the finishing line from the course side. However, she has not finished if after crossing the finishing line she
(a) takes a penalty under rule 44.2

So strictly speaking you needed to get back on the course side and cross the finishing line again to finish.

Irrelevant whether you touched the RCV just before or just after your bow crossed the line, you're still racing until you have cleared the finishing mark, and if you hit it you can't have cleared it.
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Brass

Correct.   There is no ambiguity.

Rule 18.1 says

Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave
a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.

followed by four exceptions, (a) to (d), which are irrelevant here.

The Preamble to Section C then contains a further exception

Section C rules do not apply at a starting mark surrounded by navigable
water or at its anchor line from the time boats are approaching them to
start until they have passed them.

Rule 18 makes no distinction whether a mark is a 'turn' mark (whateverthat is), a rounding mark, a high mark, a low mark or any other sort of mark, as long as boats are required to leave it on the same side.

So the only relevant exception is a starting mark surrounded by navigable water.

A finishing mark is not a starting mark.

An outside boat is required to give mark room in accordance with rule 18.

A yacht is not required to leave a finishing 'mark' to a particular side, so how does R18 apply?
Its not a Mark, in bold, as per the definitions.
Is an object which defines the end of a finishing line actually an obstruction (if it's big enough!) so R19 applies?


Edited by eric_c - 09 May 23 at 7:13pm
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Old bloke View Drop Down
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Posts: 121 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old bloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 7:42pm
Ref 423zeros post. I have to disagree with that, even amongst friendly mates racing awareness of the rules, your "rights" (Brass will disagree with rights but I couldn't think of a better word) and otherwise are very much part of the game. Anything else is just a cruise in company

Edited by Old bloke - 09 May 23 at 7:43pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 7:54pm
I would have no respect for racers who deliberately aim to use the rules to force a win, if you are that keen aim for the middle and win on skill, not a barristers grasp of the rules.
Robert
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I would have no respect for racers who deliberately aim to use the rules to force a win, if you are that keen aim for the middle and win on skill, not a barristers grasp of the rules.
I have less respect for people racing who expect other racers to give them more than the rules entitle them to.
What do you expect to happen if there's a third boat? Am I entitled to alter course 'to be nice to someone' and in doing so disadvantage someone else?
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:15pm
Eric I can categorically guarantee you, you would have no issues on the course from me.
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Posts: 168 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Old bloke

Ref 423zeros post. I have to disagree with that, even amongst friendly mates racing awareness of the rules, your "rights" (Brass will disagree with rights but I couldn't think of a better word) and otherwise are very much part of the game. Anything else is just a cruise in company

I do agree . Not that knowledge of the rules should ever used used to bully new or inexperienced sailors .
At my tiny puddle we all have a reasonable knowledge of the rules because its so small if we didn’t, it would be utter carnage.  Smile 
After all if you don’t know the basic rules how do you know when someone has infringed you or if you have infringed someone else ? 


Edited by Dakota - 10 May 23 at 1:41pm
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