Race rules advice pls

   So a course is shortened.. one of the marks is now one end of the finish line.. Competitor A calls for water at the mark (which is now a finish line but was/is a mark). Competitor B refuses and says the mark is no longer a mark but the finish line and has no obligation to give space.. 

Who is correct? 

Author	Message Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
Bandin Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 21 Feb 20 Location: Bodmin Online Status: Offline Posts: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bandin Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Race rules advice pls Posted: 08 May 23 at 8:32am
	So a course is shortened.. one of the marks is now one end of the finish line.. Competitor A calls for water at the mark (which is now a finish line but was/is a mark). Competitor B refuses and says the mark is no longer a mark but the finish line and has no obligation to give space.. Who is correct?

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 9:19am
	I wouldn't give room at the finish line, you would go from first to second (assuming you were in the lead).
	Robert

eric_c Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote eric_c Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 10:52am
	Neither.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 1:28pm
	Well its certainly correct that its now a finish line and the mark is no longer a turning mark. However I don' believe there's anything in the rule book that says RRS18 doesn't apply at a finishing mark.

Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 2:17pm
	Case 129 Definition, Finish Rule 28, Sailing the Course Rule 32, Shortening or Abandoning after the Start Rule 62.1(a), Redress When the course is shortened at a rounding mark, the mark becomes a finishing mark. Rule 32.2(a) permits the race committee to position the vessel displaying flag S at either end of the finishing line. A boat must cross the line in accordance with the definition Finish, even if in so doing she leaves that mark on the side opposite the side on which she would have been required to leave it if the course had not been shortened.

Bandin Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 21 Feb 20 Location: Bodmin Online Status: Offline Posts: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bandin Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 3:26pm
	So I'm still confused here.. I'll explain the situation a little more clearly.. Ignoring how they tactically could have played this out better earlier down the run... Leeward mark (which had previously been a port rounding mark) is now the left hand end of the finish line. Both boats are level side by side on port. Within three boat lengths of the left end mark of the finish (previous rounding mark). Leeward boat tightens up a little so windward boat (previously keep clear boat) cant get to the finish line and is now heading directly for the mark. Windward shouts for water. Leeward replies he doesnt have to give any. Windward boat has to avoid mark wrong side of the line and come around again. Who was in the wrong? Edited by Bandin - 08 May 23 at 4:30pm

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 4:15pm
	With only three boat lengths to go would be difficult for Lee boat to give windward boat room.
	Robert

Bandin Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 21 Feb 20 Location: Bodmin Online Status: Offline Posts: 22	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bandin Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 4:28pm
	Windward initially had room until leeward tightened up towards the mark cutting him out. It was a slow, very light wind day so plenty of time.

Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 4:40pm
	Its a mark. L is required to give W mark-room.

ColPrice2002 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 Nov 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 222	Post Options Post Reply Quote ColPrice2002 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 May 23 at 4:48pm
	Sorry, I'm having trouble visualising the situation:- There's a rounding park (to port), which as soon as the shorten course is signalled, it becomes the left hand end. Is that looking upwind or down wind? I'm reading the situation as a hook finish - if so, then there are other porblems. If that's wrong, then rule 18 applies, overlapped within 3 boat lengths, inside boat has right to mark room - unless the outside boat can't (not won't) give it.