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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Club problems
    Posted: 04 Dec 22 at 7:17pm
TT, not tempted to come back for a career change? Top money circa £20,000
Robert
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 22 at 1:17pm
I almost miss dinghy racing as much as threads like this.  LOL

Find another club, it really is very simple

Edited by turnturtle - 04 Dec 22 at 1:29pm
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JRB12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JRB12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 22 at 10:23am
Originally posted by 423zero

This is a wind up, £20,000 job, only slightly more than minimum wage, hardly a step up. You have just stated he is employed by local authority for three years and by the club?


No, the job with the LA ended and a job was created in the club to give this individual a job. I don’t know the exact salary given or hours worked.
As I said they had already been a club member in a voluntary club. There was no need for this paid role. Save some pie in the sky idea that the sail programme done with the LA was going to generate interest in sailing At the club.
So imagine a member of your voluntary club getting a full time job there without the broad agreement of the membership, with the scheme being proposed by their family member on the committee. Surely you’d be concerned?



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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 22 at 5:35pm
This is a wind up, £20,000 job, only slightly more than minimum wage, hardly a step up. You have just stated he is employed by local authority for three years and by the club?
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JRB12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 22 at 11:56am
To explain the line manager, the accused was employed by the club as development officer. This was already after having been a long term voluntary member and sail trainer. As a volunteer club many people did not want a paid role to exist in the club like this. It was basically set up for that person having come out of a programme of sail training where said individual was employed by the LA to deliver sail training over a 3 year period. The public interest of that programme was going to be the income to sustain that paid development role in the club. But to many the figures didn’t add up. It was pure fantasy figures.


The role was proposed by them and a family member on the committee so it was already stitched up. The chair went along with it because the committee individual basically controls the club. The post never went to advert and €20k job went to someone to keep them in a job.

So you have the added dimension of whether thie accused was actually working or volunteering and statements were altered over that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 22 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by 423zero

RYA and local authority were happy with the commodore saying it had been dealt with?

This is the problem I have with this situation.

Tbh because it’s outside of my whole sailing experience, I have a problem with the whole of this situation.  Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 22 at 11:10pm
[QUOTE=JRB12]The LA, I assume have taken the word of the chair, which is not worth a jot.
Governing body have had numerous items of evidence yet claim to have nothing to do
With club matters and won’t get involved.
A process has been deliberately hindered to ensure a favourable outcome to exonerate
Someone who holds a status in the club, yet abuses their position in the club.
People have nowhere to turn so, resign as directors , where they will be liable for any misconduct.

[/QUOTE



Why was the LA involved in the first place ? 


Why wasn’t the health and safety executive involved ? 

Also why did the accused have a ‘ line manager’ . What sort of sailing club has ‘ line managers ‘? 

This situation is very very strange .


Edited by Dakota - 02 Dec 22 at 11:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JRB12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 22 at 9:44pm
The LA, I assume have taken the word of the chair, which is not worth a jot.
Governing body have had numerous items of evidence yet claim to have nothing to do
With club matters and won’t get involved.
A process has been deliberately hindered to ensure a favourable outcome to exonerate
Someone who holds a status in the club, yet abuses their position in the club.
People have nowhere to turn so, resign as directors , where they will be liable for any misconduct.



Edited by JRB12 - 02 Dec 22 at 10:15pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 22 at 8:05pm
RYA and local authority were happy with the commodore saying it had been dealt with?
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JRB12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 22 at 6:42pm
Just to reiterate, a full investigation was done BUT it was not concluded properly. At the end of that the accused received nothing for drinking prior to a training session and the investigator was booted out of the club.

-The allegation stated that the accused had drank 4 pints before a training session they were likely to be involved in ( whether as senior trainer or as an employee (club development officer). They claimed it was only 1 pint. None of this was corroborated.

-The ensuing investigation that had to be carried out properly involved the governing body and local authority. The LA asked for the individual to be suspended pending investigation. That didn't happen and the investigation went on with them in post.
- During the course of attempting to collate evidence statements were altered, one of the investigating panel was threatened by the accused. Not all the people involved were able to be interviewed. It didn't get anywhere easily.
- The chair, who happened to also be this individuals line manager, apparently decided on his own without any consultation with the committee or investigating panel to clear them of any wrongdoing and told the LA this.
-The lead of the investigation told the governing body that the process had been hampered and could not draw a proper conclusion because of lies, collusion and corruption. When others got wind of this, a committee member, whose family member was also in the bar, instigated a disciplinary complaint on the basis that the investigator had 'brought the club into disrepute' by saying such things to the governing body. The disciplinary was chaired by this persons relative! 
The investigator who was a well respected and honourable member got suspended and later refused  renewed membership, ie booted out.

I hope that can clarify a little more what this charade is about and that 1) someone has potentially got away with something scot free 2) someone else has been booted out for questioning what has happened. If you can't see that there is corruption afoot here, I don't know how else to explain it. And the primary concern has to be for anyone who is participating in training.

If any other of our club members see what has happened to those that have questioned the conduct of committee members in their operation of the club, they will not speak up if they see anything that's not right. That can't be safe.

The club welfare policy even states:

It is essemtial to develop a culture at ************ where both children and adults feel able to raise issues, knowing that they will be taken seriously, treated confidentially and will not make the situation worse for themselves or others.

Clearly for one person having concerns was not safe and they were suspended.

You could take this as a one off mistake by those accused but there is a wealth of evidence of drinking around racing and as I said as OD. There is a drinking culture that is behind this that is totally inappropriate. This evidence has also gone to appropriate bodies.

Whether you condone drinking and sailing or not, there is no way you can tell that anyone is fit to compete after a heavy night. You can be breathalysed the next day driving and still lose your driving licence.Why should this be any different for sail racing? Many sports have breath tests before competing if concerns are raised. So why allow any drinking at all until after competitions are complete (like the OD rules say below?). I don't come from a sporting background where alcohol is prevalent (despite being in a yacht club for many years), it's a physiological impairment. But in 100's of events over the years in a number of sports I've never seen any competitors or officials drinking, nor boasting about it. And as I mentioned before a comment under a picture of a bladdered sail crew the night before as 'last boat standing' and 'does anyone race sober' gives me great concern for safety. I accept that in leisure sailing, yes people have a drink, no issues, even though the governing body doesn't condone it. But I don't believe it has a place in competition until the event is done and finished. You wouldn't see an umpire at Wimbledon having a drink between matches or Mo Farah having a pint before a race. So why should it be acceptable in sailing?



As for the rules on race officials:

RYA racing rules section B2 and code of conduct, point 9, stating race officials should:

 

9. Abstain from consuming alcohol until duties are over for the day. Race officials must never become inappropriately inebriated during an event. Race officials should also refrain from smoking or vaping indoors or whilst carrying out their duties.

 

RYA Race Officials Code of Conduct

 RYA race officials (race officers, mark layers, equipment inspectors, judges and umpires) are among the most exposed officials of the sport. It is therefore essential that they behave with the highest degree of competence, propriety and integrity. At no time can or should a race official do anything to bring the sport into disrepute.

 

The words of one resigning director:


·        ‘Potentially covering up  drinking alcohol and working on cadets' boats  with no action to even address the behaviour and thus lead it probably to happen again significantly puts future users of this club at risk.


There should be a zero tolerance on alcohol just like any other business, I'm shocked this is not the case and it appears drinking is seen as part of the sailing scene in *********.  This fundamentally is an extremely dangerous way to operate.’

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