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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RYA Wokebomb
    Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Sussex Lad


How to get them interested? How do we get minorities through the door?


Stop thinking of them as 'minorities' for a start. The whole thing smacks of Patronising paternalism, people are just people and if we're lucky enough for one to walk through the door asking, then just be bothered to take interest.

Doesn't matter what shape or shade they are, sailing clubs can easily ignore all and any shape and shade if they're busy getting ready for a race or running one when someone comes up to the control box just as a bunch of lasers are approaching the line, they're going to get short shrift.

Think about it, we're all so pre occupied with doing it we really haven't got the time or interest to devote to newcomers.

Maybe we should set a day a week when we really only cater for beginners and new arrivals.

The problem is there really isn't any incentive, we can pretend there is, but really?

Which is why seriously clubs should have profit making schools attached to them, with the specific designation to teach people to actually do what we need them to do and not just to be taught sailing as nothing more than how to potter about in a boat.



In some respect or another you're a minority, I'm a minority. I'm also aware that my views tend to be in the minority. Quite happy to have them though......do I feel patronised ? No. 

Anyway, that aside.  Pretty much carry on as usual then?


Edited by Sussex Lad - 05 Apr 21 at 5:03pm
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 7:51am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad


Anyway, that aside.  Pretty much carry on as usual then?

Well for now, within reason yes.

I think that the pandemic has shown us that there are better ways to do some things, but on the whole in the immediate term the sport needs to get back to previous levels of activity. The way to achieve this is to return to something close to the old "normal" and get the clubs up and running - some clubs will achieve this in a matter of days, for others it could take months.

It's tempting to bring in wholesale changes but doing this risks alienating your base membership, and that is where your volunteer force comes from whom most clubs will need in order to grow.
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patj View Drop Down
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 8:12am
Most men can start understanding the issues by asking yourself "Why doesn't my wife/partner come sailing with me?" What puts them off?. Do ask them, as the answers could be interesting.
Sailing clubs are gender biased - just compare the size of the changing rooms. Very few have equal size for ladies and gents and those are usually the newer, biggest clubs and centres. It advertises that women aren't as welcome as men and they don't want as many.
Sailing clothing isn't much better for equality. Anyone who isn't a teenage or young fit woman's size is forced into men's clothing which compresses the chest area excessively. I know women who won't wear wetsuits because of the fit so will only sail when it is warmer.
And do the women get chance to sail without hubby/partner in the boat telling them what to do? It's like learning to drive - never learn with partner - and parents can be as bad!
The Women on the Water groups are great for building confidence and getting women out in boats. We need more of them because if clubs get women involved, they will bring families, children and grandchildren and benefit sailing for the future.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:03am
We only have two women members, shocking really.
Robert
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

. I suspect the RYA realise what the problem is with falling membership but they haven't got a clue how to change it. How to make an organisation more inclusive without destroying everything the remaining diehards hold so dear?

I don't believe they can do it until the wider environment becomes less frightened and more inclusive........


Paramedic,
  Sorry for quoting myself but as you can see I agree with much of what you said. Too much is dependent on attitudes, trends and events in the wider environment. As I said earlier exclusivity is on the rise as populations get scared and the media and politicians milk it. Consistency, continuity, security and preserving traditional social structure become more important than equality, inclusivity, parity, progress and fairness etc.

It's a fact of life, it's what humans have evolved to do........ sadly inevitable. 

Very important to keep the issue on the radar though.
 
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:32am
Originally posted by 423zero

We only have two women members, shocking really.

Sorry, but your club sounds horrific. No non-white members, only two women, an inaccessible clubhouse... and tiny, decreasing membership. I wonder why?!
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Do Different

I'm not arguing with you Sam or anyone else for that matter. And it does vary hugely with the wide range of venues. On the very small inland waters perhaps there is little other than racing to hold interest but on larger lakes Clubs can have a role as a focal point for those people who are happy to potter or simply blatt about for an hour of fun. SUP is gaining popularity and largely uncompetitive,  although some will happily throw in and go many nowadays like a few facilities which clubs can provide and once through the door.............?

Agreed, but the problem is that to go racing you need organisation, to go sailing you need none, it is true that large lake and costal clubs often have a cruising section but, like windsurfers, sailors (as opposed to 'sailboat racers') aren't naturally predisposed to join things, mostly they do what they do to get away from organisation and regulation.

WRT wives sailing, my wife doesn't come simply because she doesn't like sailing, she's tried it a few times for my benefit but it's not for her. If she did like it the fact of small changing rooms or WHY would not put her off...


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 06 Apr 21 at 9:38am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 10:00am
Originally posted by patj

Most men can start understanding the issues by asking yourself "Why doesn't my wife/partner come sailing with me?" What puts them off?. Do ask them, as the answers could be interesting.Sailing clubs are gender biased - just compare the size of the changing rooms. Very few have equal size for ladies and gents and those are usually the newer, biggest clubs and centres. It advertises that women aren't as welcome as men and they don't want as many.
Sailing clothing isn't much better for equality. Anyone who isn't a teenage or young fit woman's size is forced into men's clothing which compresses the chest area excessively. I know women who won't wear wetsuits because of the fit so will only sail when it is warmer.And do the women get chance to sail without hubby/partner in the boat telling them what to do? It's like learning to drive - never learn with partner - and parents can be as bad!The Women on the Water groups are great for building confidence and getting women out in boats. We need more of them because if clubs get women involved, they will bring families, children and grandchildren and benefit sailing for the future.


This is spot on. Talking to the daughter yesterday, we realised the last female Commodore at our club was when I was Vice, over 15 years ago. Evening committee meetings, rambling on till late, are partly to blame. Possibly the migration to online meetings will help on this.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 10:26am
I do wonder whether part of the issue is that Clubs, Training and Racing are not a perfect fit.  Modern training centres such as WPNSA appear to be very busy and diverse when I have attended events there ... why?  Probably because they have professional staff running the show and are well resourced with the right kit.  Dragon boat racing etc. etc. it looks a lot of fun.
Whereas most clubs have minimal and probably overpressed staff, rely on untrained volunteers to provide training in tired boats, in tired premises, often fitted around racing.
If clubs get grant money, the chances are that this will be directed toward facilities that offer the most immediate benefit to its members.
So as an outsider, where male, female, black or white, what incentive is there to walk through the door.
I occasionally think about learning to play golf ... the reason why I don't is that I am intimidated in walking into a golf club and in making a fool of myself ... and they have an employed pro ... so what chance to sailing clubs have with no "pro".
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

zero, have you ever noticed cliques forming at the club?  Sub groups? Imagine being permanently on the outside of all of them.

I live close to one of the premier inland sailing clubs in the country. I know a lot of people there but I still do not feel welcome when I visit there.

Originally posted by Rupert

Evening committee meetings, rambling on till late, are partly to blame. Possibly the migration to online meetings will help on this.

We have found that having online meetings and keeping things focused has improved meeting attendance and reduced the length of the meeting considerably. We also have a number of ladies on the main committee now and several on the sailing committee. Getting their input has been great.

The club also has a thriving Ladies (and silver sailors) group. Some of them are now thinking about making the transition to come at the weekends and the club has plans to address the difference in changing rooms sizes.
Paul
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