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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

. I suspect the RYA realise what the problem is with falling membership but they haven't got a clue how to change it. How to make an organisation more inclusive without destroying everything the remaining diehards hold so dear?

I don't believe they can do it until the wider environment becomes less frightened and more inclusive........


Paramedic,
  Sorry for quoting myself but as you can see I agree with much of what you said. Too much is dependent on attitudes, trends and events in the wider environment. As I said earlier exclusivity is on the rise as populations get scared and the media and politicians milk it. Consistency, continuity, security and preserving traditional social structure become more important than equality, inclusivity, parity, progress and fairness etc.

It's a fact of life, it's what humans have evolved to do........ sadly inevitable. 

Very important to keep the issue on the radar though.
 
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:03am
We only have two women members, shocking really.
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patj View Drop Down
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 8:12am
Most men can start understanding the issues by asking yourself "Why doesn't my wife/partner come sailing with me?" What puts them off?. Do ask them, as the answers could be interesting.
Sailing clubs are gender biased - just compare the size of the changing rooms. Very few have equal size for ladies and gents and those are usually the newer, biggest clubs and centres. It advertises that women aren't as welcome as men and they don't want as many.
Sailing clothing isn't much better for equality. Anyone who isn't a teenage or young fit woman's size is forced into men's clothing which compresses the chest area excessively. I know women who won't wear wetsuits because of the fit so will only sail when it is warmer.
And do the women get chance to sail without hubby/partner in the boat telling them what to do? It's like learning to drive - never learn with partner - and parents can be as bad!
The Women on the Water groups are great for building confidence and getting women out in boats. We need more of them because if clubs get women involved, they will bring families, children and grandchildren and benefit sailing for the future.
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 7:51am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad


Anyway, that aside.  Pretty much carry on as usual then?

Well for now, within reason yes.

I think that the pandemic has shown us that there are better ways to do some things, but on the whole in the immediate term the sport needs to get back to previous levels of activity. The way to achieve this is to return to something close to the old "normal" and get the clubs up and running - some clubs will achieve this in a matter of days, for others it could take months.

It's tempting to bring in wholesale changes but doing this risks alienating your base membership, and that is where your volunteer force comes from whom most clubs will need in order to grow.
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Sussex Lad


How to get them interested? How do we get minorities through the door?


Stop thinking of them as 'minorities' for a start. The whole thing smacks of Patronising paternalism, people are just people and if we're lucky enough for one to walk through the door asking, then just be bothered to take interest.

Doesn't matter what shape or shade they are, sailing clubs can easily ignore all and any shape and shade if they're busy getting ready for a race or running one when someone comes up to the control box just as a bunch of lasers are approaching the line, they're going to get short shrift.

Think about it, we're all so pre occupied with doing it we really haven't got the time or interest to devote to newcomers.

Maybe we should set a day a week when we really only cater for beginners and new arrivals.

The problem is there really isn't any incentive, we can pretend there is, but really?

Which is why seriously clubs should have profit making schools attached to them, with the specific designation to teach people to actually do what we need them to do and not just to be taught sailing as nothing more than how to potter about in a boat.



In some respect or another you're a minority, I'm a minority. I'm also aware that my views tend to be in the minority. Quite happy to have them though......do I feel patronised ? No. 

Anyway, that aside.  Pretty much carry on as usual then?


Edited by Sussex Lad - 05 Apr 21 at 5:03pm
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 4:56pm
BTW.  Thumbs Up
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Sussex Lad


How to get them interested? How do we get minorities through the door?
 

Stop thinking of them as 'minorities' for a start. The whole thing smacks of Patronising paternalism, people are just people and if we're lucky enough for one to walk through the door asking, then just be bothered to take interest. 

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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 4:52pm
I'm not arguing with you Sam or anyone else for that matter. And it does vary hugely with the wide range of venues. On the very small inland waters perhaps there is little other than racing to hold interest but on larger lakes Clubs can have a role as a focal point for those people who are happy to potter or simply blatt about for an hour of fun. SUP is gaining popularity and largely uncompetitive,  although some will happily throw in and go many nowadays like a few facilities which clubs can provide and once through the door.............?



 
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 4:25pm
Yes but that gets back to the problem, teaching sailing as a sport, rather than a pastime and what is it the RYA is chasing I wonder?

Our problem isn't anything to do with diversity imv it's more due to the educational system of late and lack of promotion of competition for fear of creating 'more losers than winners', so we just get a general lack of aspirants, of all groups.

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Do Different

I wonder if dinghy sailing in particular is too wedded to racing; no sooner is someone through the door than the talk is about "getting them racing".

Club sailing definitely is wedded to racing... I've sailed dinghies since I was 11 and raced since I was 12, I'm also a long time windsurfer, taught myself to windsurf at 29, first raced at 30 and raced regularly until I started sailing dinghies again at 55. The point is that you don't need to join a club to do either but if you want to race then joining a club is undoubtedly the easiest route into that aspect of the sport.

Sailing, other than racing*, does not need any outside organisation you just take the boat to somewhere you can launch it and off you go so no need to join a club (and very few benefits to you if you do other than access to the water in some cases.
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by Do Different

I wonder if dinghy sailing in particular is too wedded to racing; no sooner is someone through the door than the talk is about "getting them racing".

Looking at a couple of other outdoor activities (I'm also not so sure we should keep calling sailing a sport) the growth from an outsiders (mine) point of view is it the non competitive areas. Park runs are expressly not races although people obviously do set personal goals. Cycling has been growing for a while and went mad this last 12 months, I doubt many of the new participants are going straight into racing.

Exactly. Sailing doesn't have a discrimination problem it has a group polarisation problem. In clubs (and particularly on Y&Y) people assume 'sailing' and 'serious racing in privately owned boats' are interchangeable.

Bet that many people looking to learn to sail have some hope of it providing freedom and adventure. When they meet with the reality - the weekly drift round the same pond in disparate boats while the results are worked out by an arcane formula that everyone moans about - they quite rationally decide to go elsewhere.

This is as much part of the 'alternatives to sailing clubs' thread. Clubs are important, but maybe covid is a chance to reset and retreat from the narrow conception of the sport that presently exists.  
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