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davidyacht View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 8:10am
Originally posted by iGRF

old fashioned attitude still prevalent towards British females in the workplace, it's in our culture, a Victorian hangover. Scandanavians had a much more equal opportunistic outlook even back then

I would suggest that at least part of the issue with equality of sexes and race are driven by a lack of expectation and are generational, I know of people who were discouraged from going to grammar school or university by their parents because it is “not what we do”, education is the best opportunity to break out of racial and gender stereotyping in my opinion.  

The same could be said to be said of sports such as sailing, many children get involved in sailing and other sports to improve their personal statements for university, and others take on sports such as sailing through university.  

Not saying this is the complete picture but it is part.
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 21 at 5:56am
The two person three sail single wire class I sail has a few mixed crews. Although of British origin  the class is possibly stronger in Holland than here and when we see our European friends the number of mixed crews is even more striking, also all female teams not unknown.  

I don't know but I doubt there are gender quotas in Holland, it would suggest the British culture is way behind and as a result missing out badly.

Funnily enough it is hard to explain as a social class failing. Through my teenage years and into my twenties I was pretty immersed in horses and ponies. I hasten to add I'm far from a toff, simply a rural kid who began mucking out stables for pocket money. Anyone could be forgiven for thinking the horsey scene to be very "old school" but as far as I ever saw it was completely gender blind.  
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Is engineering "marketed" better to girls in Scandinavia? Why different? ]


Years ago, back in the early Seventies, I had a lot of 'friends' from Sweden, mostly girls, came to our town intially because it was a language training centre, and some stayed to work for us, we had a Printing and Graphics business back then, we also had students from St Gallen a Swiss centre for Graphic design.

To a T, all of them were surprised at the old fashioned attitude still prevalent towards British females in the workplace, it's in our culture, a Victorian hangover. Scandanavians had a much more equal opportunistic outlook even back then.

I have four daughters, they work in the City, it's still as bad as it ever was, in this country females face more discrimination than ethnic minoritys imv.
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 9:38pm
Its all about equal opportunities. People can take opportunities or pass up on them as they see fit, but we should strive where possible to have equal opportunities.

By way of an example back when I was studying there were maybe 5 - 10% women on the engineering courses at my university, Nav Arch being no different. Maybe its more equal today. Engineering has and probably still has something of a blokey image. Unlike childbirth or average size and strength, there is no reason why a woman would be more or less capable at engineering, all things being equal. Its mostly maths and physics and judgement. I think.

Imagine my suprise when later in life I travel to Norway where it seems that every other Nav Arch is a nice Lady. Is the culture different in secondary education? Are there more or better role models? Is engineering "marketed" better to girls in Scandinavia? Why different? I don't think there can be any other reason behind it.

I abhor quota filling and targets as a way to "acheieve" equality but the other way i.e. building or changing culture, opportunities, good role models etc takes time and effort.

By the same token, and it goes back to the quote filling  - I think its simplistic and condascending to think that all humans of all ethnicities genders and persuasions should like all leisure pursuits in equal proportion.


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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 9:38am
No, because they WANT to participate. There is a difference between facilitating enthusiastic people taking part and trying to force disinterested people into it.

Please see earlier posts for my take on how this has gone for us.

Edited by Paramedic - 04 Apr 21 at 11:05am
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Paramedic

 

However I dont agree with positive discrimination and I do see it as a trap we don't particularly want to fall into because 1) Its wrong and 2) it wastes hours and hours of volunteer time. 


So you disagreed with the positive discrimation in recent VOR's to have a % of women crew and then these amazing women went on to better things, something that would not have happened otherwise? The path to the top for some, and even entry to sport itself, sometimes needs a push and a positive effort on  our part


Edited by Chris_H - 04 Apr 21 at 8:44am
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 8:32am
Originally posted by Chris_H

This is NOT the definition of Positive Discrimination and you have twisted the scenario to suit your narrative. I dont know why we want to tear down the initiative the RYA has set itself. A peculairly British habit ...

I wasn't aware that the MET police were setting the RYA targets. Please read the post again - I know that the formatting doesn't help.

However I dont agree with positive discrimination and I do see it as a trap we don't particularly want to fall into because 1) Its wrong and 2) it wastes hours and hours of volunteer time. 

Volunteer time is a precious resource.

I have spent years and years working in the public sector and have seen positive discrimination at its worst.


Edited by Paramedic - 04 Apr 21 at 8:34am
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 8:12am
Originally posted by Paramedic

 

Positive discrimination is applied by only the most ignorant people. They have seen that certain people don't "do" something and decide that they must do it and it must be "our" fault that they do not. They don't look into the reasons why they don't do it and not being interested isn't an acceptable excuse.

This is NOT the definition of Positive Discrimination and you have twisted the scenario to suit your narrative. I dont know why we want to tear down the initiative the RYA has set itself. A peculairly British habit ...


Edited by Chris_H - 04 Apr 21 at 8:15am
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 8:11am
Originally posted by Rupert

I'm not sure the RYA is setting quotas? Interesting concept, will the RYA enforcement officers be visiting every club to check up on us, too?

That would have been a good headline a couple of days ago  LOL
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 21 at 7:51am
Originally posted by NicolaJayne

 
[citation required] ref policing

the Met has been recently told  that   it should  increase it's intake  of BAME  officers  to match the  community it serves  - as the Met has a significant  Ethnicity 'gap'  ( iirc the met as something like  12 or 15 % BAME officers, but  the MPD area's population is  approximately  one third  BAME   and various of the London boroughs  are  well in excess of that  




You see I don't like this.

1) What do you do if people who match this criteria (I loathe the term BAME, I think its borderline racist in itself and will be banned in ten years time) do not want to do the job? Are the people imposing this aware that in some parts of the world the role of a police officer is around or lower than the social standing of the people who clean out your toilet? Roadsweepers and bin men do a vital job, but if one of your children expressed an ambition to be one I don't think you'd be too happy, and family pressure plays a huge role in eastern and southern Asian culture. Thats not going to change, at least not overnight.

2) How many potentially very good officers are you turning away because of religion, skin colour or where their ancestors originate? Isn't this precisely what this "process" is trying to avoid? Are we saying that we actually don't want the very best candidates possible policing our streets?

3) Applied to sailing there is the saying that you can take the horse to water but you cant force it to drink. We can offer opportunities, but if ANYONE doesn't want to continue we cant force them to.

Positive discrimination is applied by only the most ignorant people. They have seen that certain people don't "do" something and decide that they must do it and it must be "our" fault that they do not. They don't look into the reasons why they don't do it and not being interested isn't an acceptable excuse.
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