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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RYA Wokebomb
    Posted: 02 Apr 21 at 12:11pm
I am thinking more along the lines of RYA positive discrimination documents, seems like a solution looking for a problem.
I have a group of friends, other members have their group of friends, we all work together for the club, can't see issues with that, their are members I dislike, got no intention of discriminating against them.
Robert
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 21 at 11:00am
It's illegal to actively discriminate and you cannot legislate against thought.  

zero, have you ever noticed cliques forming at the club?  Sub groups? Imagine being permanently on the outside of all of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 21 at 10:43am
I can only speak for the clubs I have had experience of, I am not going to generalise about clubs I know nothing about. The clubs I do know, all would welcome new members of any race or level of experience, the problem is finding new members. I have never heard from other people I know, who are members of clubs I have no knowledge of, that they discriminate against certain types of people, whether that is a matter of class or race, does anyone know of clubs that actively or covertly discriminate?

Edited by 423zero - 02 Apr 21 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 21 at 9:46am
Exclusivity is a growing trend in the wider world ATM. The sport of sailing is just following that trend within it's own boundaries and in it's own way. This forum was vastly more tollerant 15 years ago with a vastly more inclusive feel. Sadly, various sub groups that were minorities within the forum got picked on or ignored. Bigoted views and bullying insults were seen as being vaguely acceptable (if rationalised as banter).....why should they stay and be insulted? There were other less hidebound places to go and chat.........All that occurs on here is just a reflection of the wider sport. There are still some with inclusive attitudes hanging on in there because they love sitting in boats on the water but they are getting fewer and fewer. I suspect the RYA realise what the problem is with falling membership but they haven't got a clue how to change it. How to make an organisation more inclusive without destroying everything the remaining diehards hold so dear?

I don't believe they can do it until the wider environment becomes less frightened and more inclusive........
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 21 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad


Originally posted by iGRF


OK , now I can start to press the 'taking offence' button.



Snowflake.


Pure as the driven...

Edited by iGRF - 01 Apr 21 at 11:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 21 at 7:59am
Originally posted by iGRF



OK , now I can start to press the 'taking offence' button.





Snowflake.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 8:56pm
"People like them", also works in reverse if we want it to. If we use examples of the diverse nature of those who sail already, whether that be gender, skin colour or disability in our publicity, people start to think that maybe the sport has something to offer "them".
Nicola Jayne, I'd not come across that phrase before. I'm pale and male, and fighting against stale, though it's hard.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 7:56pm
I don't get it anyway (pale,male, stale), glad I don't really, sounds disgusting to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by NicolaJayne


 exactly, although it seems some people want their particular  sport /. hobby/ pastime to remain solely for 'people like them ' ( Pale , Male, Stale )  first  two of those characteristics they can;t do much about , but  the staleness is  100 % a choice 


OK , now I can start to press the 'taking offence' button.

I've yet to meet anyone in my particular sports that act in that way, and that includes all the dinghy sailors I come into contact with. Frankly that expression 'Pale Male Stale is just as offensive as any other term that would be considered and whined at as 'racist' by hand wringers and I certainly take exception to its use at my fellow sportsmen. Nobody can help the shade of their skin save for risking skin cancer in the summer, no one can really alter their gender,not without surgery and a particular mindset, and stale? well maybe if you sail a Solo, but then nobody I know still does.

So, in the words of the prophet Isaiah, you can do one, with that expression thanks just the same.



Edited by iGRF - 31 Mar 21 at 7:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 9:30am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Sussex Lad



Sounds remarkably like a rationalisation to justify racism. It is entirely possible to have a group identity without being scared of other groups just because they are other......ah well.


It's entirely a rationalisation, not to justify, but to accept 'racism' as another term to describe human group interaction. A group identity doesn't necessarily have to be scared per se, but when they start to consider their superiority over others, then the probems start.

Catholics over Protestants, Sunni v Shia Muslims, West Ham suporters v Millwall, PYAG group v any group that isn't Laser..


I was using the word rationalisation in it's true sense.

If I can give my brief and potted take on prejudice, I have a bit of time:

Humans have the ability to learn dogma. It's a mostly useful ability and is sometimes called rote learning.  A good example would be the times tables which we can quote without thinking and with absolute certainty, learnt from repetition and reinforced with encouragement from teachers. Another form of rote learning would be "don't cross the road without looking and listening", it gets repeated endlessly when we are kids until it finally sticks and becomes an automatic response. In this last example we have learned to pre judge roads as dangerous places, we have applied prejudice and possibly saved our lives.

These are constructive examples of how humans save time in  critical situations, how to make split second decisions with instant automatic responses.

All very useful and it serves the human race well in most instances. The problem arises when we are fed dogma that isn't useful and we then apply prejudice destructively.

This is learnt behaviour and therefore can be unlearnt given a bit of thought and willingness.

Here's the bit that can F**k the willingness to unlearn up:

Humans also have a need to "belong".  We are much better able to survive and thrive in a group. Evolution has imposed this need.  Groups are likely to have more skills than an individual.

There is a need for harmony in these groups otherwise they can become dangerous (ones own sensitivity to fear may make us more or less social)  Humans have developed a whole range of unspoken rules and abilities to get along, one of these abilities can be called Confluence (in some circles), it's mostly an unconscious response, the need to go with the flow, we will adopt common attitudes and behaviour in order to maintain harmony. Better still we will seek out groups that have attitudes that mirror our own. We will be inclined to defend the group also. Whether these attitudes are constructive or destructive is up for debate? Most of this stuff goes on beneath the radar, is unconscious and can be called institutionalised.

In brief:
Pre judging is mostly constructive but quite often isn't. It's learned and can be unlearnt.
The very powerful human need to belong may bugger up and override the desire to un-learn.
There's loads of stuff missing above.
woke?  Wink





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