Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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tink ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Jan 16 Location: North Hants Online Status: Offline Posts: 789 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 01 Apr 21 at 6:05am |
Robin, glad someone agrees with me about the Streaker. I would occasionally get to the top mark first Streaker to be taken down wind by a boat going considerably faster than me
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
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robin34024 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Jan 12 Location: Lincoln Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
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I really suspect that the 'Fast boats getting faster' element is dramatically skewed by the I14 and the Moth which, well, really are getting faster.
The slow boats getting slower, well - I suspect that is skewed by the junior classes. Case in point being the Topper which I believe was 1290 when I sailed one (V competitively) in roughly 2009-2013 and at that was already a benefit in strong airs, with multiple club race wins against exceptionally good sailors I really shouldnt have stood a chance against. It's now up to 1365. Is this because the boat has changed? Well, it's only sped up with the advent of decent 6:1 downhauls, a more powerful 6:1 kicker recently, and little reliability improvements (gooseneck, gudgeons, masthead) in that time, so that's a cold, hard, no. So, what's more likely being handicapped is the standard of sailors racing. There has been a genuinely massive speed increase in the Streaker and Solo at very least with the advent of decent FRP boats since ~2005 or so, probably 15-20 point based on personal experience with a pretty good (154*) wooden Streaker, followed by an FPR rocketship (183*). The difference was all downwind, with the woodie faring excellently upwind, but sticking like sh*t downwind. So in this case - has the standard of sailor changed? Well, probably not, it's still a similar demographic of mainly old blokes with mainly current boats. What's changed, is the current boats are faster than they were 15 years ago. IMO this demonstrates the crux of it is that what is being handicapped is a composite of: the boat speed itself, and the skill level of your average standard club racer.
This is all speculative, and I've barely fact checked the above, so feel free to throw some numbers/facts/abuse at me and tell me I'm wrong. Does anyone have a freely available archive of PY numbers from 2000 to 2020? Would be curious to see them and make some graphs myself if so, and I don't mind what format they're in!
Edited by robin34024 - 31 Mar 21 at 10:38pm |
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tink ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Jan 16 Location: North Hants Online Status: Offline Posts: 789 |
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Except for the Streaker which explains why my 20year old wooden (over weight when some cowboy built it) was no match to the new much stiffer plastic fantastics, than and the nut on the tiller
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
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Grumpycat ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 497 |
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Hartley’s business model seems to involve taking older boats in as px . So it means that have a big say in setting what the second hand price is . |
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Don’t know how many clubs returned results but I find this plot interesting. Slow boats getting slower, fast ones getting faster.
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tink ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Jan 16 Location: North Hants Online Status: Offline Posts: 789 |
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That’s very odd, interesting to see / know if suddenly a number of clubs stopped doing returns reduced and a second axis with number of clubs returning.
The supanova always intrigues me the association and Hartley’s are clearly working hard but the odd thing is all second hand mk II are always £4250 +/- a few hundred
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
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What we really sail, and the changing trends since 2012. A look at the number of race results used for PY returns, so I got only. What happened in 2015, was it windy?
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These are from a couple of years back but I don’t think too much has changed.
First one shows the number people sailing different classes (on a log scale) - green are double handlers, blue single handlers. What surprised me was that although single handers are more popular, double handers get more people sailing (except for the Laser). Last pic shows that generally fast boats had (in 2018) a reduction in PY, slow boats an increase. Second one shows the exponential increase in popularity of classes. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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