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    Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 5:25pm

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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Mozzy

I think the PY system is perfect. 

It produces results that are just about recognisable enough to incentivise people to go sailing. But nowhere near good enough that anyone would take a bad result to heart. Seems pretty much perfect for amateaur sport. 

In the last 10 years of championship sailing I've never had one finish outside the top 60%. I've not finished inside the top 60% in the last three pursuit races done in the 800. Despite being blessed with blinded self confidence and a titanic ego these results can be little icebergs to my impregnable iron skin. I was forced to spend 20 minutes explaining to a Tera sailor last year just how statistically improbable their beating of me was. But for some reason when they started crying I didn't feel like a winner. 

Please don’t bring pursuit races in this someone is going to want to add diurnal wind, number of boats at each start time etc into the the fudge factors. 
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 6:56pm
Pursuit races are the work of the Devil  Angry, can't stand them, good generator of disputes, try explaining that you need to pass certain boats twice, "I passed the Mirror" yes but it had already completed a lap before you had even started  Confused
Robert
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 7:08pm
The biggest problem we have with pursuits is once someone is passed they go home. Much better to keep them slogging round in a py race and then wait for a little while to find out they’ve been beaten
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Oli View Drop Down
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 7:13pm
Simple solution, get all racers to predict their finish position and just go to the bar.

Or have them put themselves in ability order, and base all results off that and then do as above.

Or go sailing, have a race, accept its not perfect

adjust locally when possible and enjoy the day on the water.

Ask your club to submit race data.

Collaborate with other clubs and their data to get more confidence.

Participate in the process, stop pissing and moaning.
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 7:43pm
On the other hand....

Personal handicap pursuits encourage the early starters to try hard to stay in the lead for as long as possible ... and the 'late starters' the challenge of seeing if they can work hard at it to still get through...  a real incentive for both.  At my club the personal handicap pursuit 'engine' whirs away and spits out a revised or confirmed personal handicap each and every week for every crew.  This of course is an adjustment that takes both the class AND the individual crews results each week into account... do well and you start later the following week and vice versa. 


They have been, by very far the most popular form of club racing at Burghfield for many years now.  Nobody would want to do them all the time but the sheer numbers involved dwarfs anything at the club except the very largest Open event.  The numbers (of starters  at least..) do talk and do not lie !!  They are good fun and do keep more people striving to be better for more of the time .. btw they don't flounce off and retire once overtaken either... Why on earth would they anyway ?


And there is far less agro over 'boat handicaps' ....of course.   


Edited by Cirrus - 23 Nov 20 at 7:43pm
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 7:55pm
I have to say I love doing pursuits.( No messing about after the race waiting to find out who has won, the gun goes and everyone knows the winner. ) Probably because it’s been bedrock of all the clubs I have been a member of. If I had to divide up my sailing  95% would be pursuits, handicaps would be  4.98. And my only class racing is at national championships would be the remaining .02%. 
On the other if your sailing a slowish boat , there is nothing worse for your health and temper than being overtaken for the lead in the last 5 mins by dozens of fast boats . LOL
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 8:56pm
I love pursuit races. But being in a Firefly on a small lake means I don't get swallowed up by fast boats too early, and its lovely not to be constantly in dirty wind. On a good day, the aim is to be further ahead at the end than at the beginning. On a bad day, a blanket of larger sails hits 10 minutes before the end and it all goes horribly wrong.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 20 at 8:58pm
Actually, must talk to the club about personal handicap pursuits. We've used it for standard handicap racing over the years, but it never seems very satisfactory - just a numbers game. Playing it out on the water sounds much better.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 20 at 7:03am
Brilliant boat, sailed a new plastic one, haven't tried a wooden one yet, primary 'Bandit' just beats a 'Topaz' into first place.
Robert
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