New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Topper Colours
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topper Colours

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
Author
polc1410 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 10 Jan 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Topper Colours
    Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 8:01am
I hear that argument all the time and I find it bonkers.  Maybe in the Olympics, possibly.  Though with so few boats and so many cameras even that’s highly doubtful.
I'd agree - much harder at the olympics to not be recognisable. Tons of Jury boats, TV, etc.


But in a Topper, really?
You've never been to a Topper Nationals Protest Hearing then!  Some of these guys will be future Olympic hopefuls. They are being trained at age ~12 to compete like olympians.

It’s a fun boat in what is meant to be a fun hobby.
Ah. You are considering sailing a hobby rather than a sport.

100-200 race at national level and about 20-30 race “seriously”.
There are 20-30 who might stand a chance of a win.  If thats the definition of seriously.  Further down the fleet there will remain 'serious' races.  Coming 50th might still mean getting a regional squad place.  Or it might simply mean beating your arch rival.

And what kind of lesson is that to kids - “stay anonymous and you may get away with things”? 
The trouble is... if all the others are staying anonymous - you might need to too.  Obviously the rules should be followed.   The Black Flag is probably the best time to not be identifiable; that may or may not mean cheating.  Lets say 10 boats are over on BF with 200 boat start.  If the OD can identify all 10, you are BFD. If he can't identify them all he will have to Gen Recall.  If he identifies some they will be BFD.  Not being identified isn't cheating, its the reality of a race.  

But lets be realistic.  Its those top 20 who are buying a brand new race topper.  Those then sell to the rest of the fleet over time.  So those 20 set the spec.

Also £50 extra for a sail and £50 extra for hull top sides.   So £100.  Those racers would rather spend that on something that makes the boat sail faster or protects the boat better.  Some of those guys will be buying new sails every year or two.  Those £50 extras add up.

Coloured sails fade quicker.  The beach clubs likely said not to do it.  The beach clubs wouldn't pay more for coloured hulls.
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 7:44am
Completely agree A2Z

I like racing but certainly not the attitude shown by some. 




Back to Top
tink View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Jan 16
Location: North Hants
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 789
Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 7:41am
Toppers have a 3 digit champ number on the sail so no one is hiding. A considerable number of kids get a lot of fun by sailing competitively
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 7:15am
I hear that argument all the time and I find it bonkers.  Maybe in the Olympics, possibly.  Though with so few boats and so many cameras even that’s highly doubtful.  

But in a Topper, really? It’s a fun boat in what is meant to be a fun hobby. 100-200 race at national level and about 20-30 race “seriously”.  And what kind of lesson is that to kids - “stay anonymous and you may get away with things”?  
Back to Top
polc1410 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 10 Jan 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 6:50am
At the "top end" (where most of the people are buying new) -

Do you want to be the only yellow hull or only blue hull in a fleet that is 90+% red?

Protest room;

"How sure are you it was sail number 123456 that was on port and not 153426?"

"He has a yellow hull"

Committee boat: "did you catch the sail number of the OCS boat to BFD?"

"It was the blue hull ending 789"

Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3400
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 20 at 10:07am
93 boats u the Topper Nationals 5.3 Gold fleet, plus another 120 in the silver, bronze and 4.2 fleets, thats 223 sailors serious enough to travel to Largs for the event.

Changing colour would involve purging the system in an injection moulding machine as the plastic has to be molten before it's injected so there is an additional cost in material and time which does not occur when producing several of the same colour. In a roto-moulding machine the granules are placed directly into the mould so two different colours could follow with no more than a clean (which I assume happens each time anyway).
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 20 at 9:24am
Hmmm, seems arrogant to suggest that there is no customer benefit to offering them choice.  The cost of different coloured sails is trivial and could be a costed option.  Hulls, granted, may be more hassle than it’s worth but it used to happen and they’ve always been cheap.  
If the majority of buyers are top end racers then that would explain a big drop off in sails.  The topper is the ideal holiday/training/family boat - there will never be more more than 100 or so serious racers but there are countless more below that level for whom £3k is an affordable toy.
Back to Top
tink View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Jan 16
Location: North Hants
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 789
Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 20 at 5:35am
Most of the new Toppers sold will be at the more serious end of the fleet and I doubt one single new purchase has been lost due to hull colour choice. So rather than add cost for no benefit for their customers the actual racing kit has been upgraded and a Topper offers a highly competitive package in a decreasing and competitive market.

The change of colour is not quick and easy, lost production, multiple part need producing to purge the old colour (these can be recycled but not easily back into Toppers but a lower grade product) inventory control of the plastic, I doubt they master batch so a silo for each colour, storage of the different colour hulls which is uncontrollable do to customer demands - the list of hassle goes on and on. Standardisation brings benefits for everyone. 


Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 20 at 9:18pm
Not many white windsurfer sails.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 20 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by tink

As a counter poise, the Tera Pro is styled to look like an adult dinghy. If you’re going to increase the cost of the Topper there are probably more appropriate and appealing ways than striped sails. 
Also roto moulded dinghies are generally the same colour and it costs nothing to change the colour of them compared to an injection moulding (not sure many people here understand what an injection moulding machine is)


Plenty of adult dinghies had stripy sails when the Topper did. In fact, theTopper was as much adult dinghy as kids' boat.

As the fun went out of beach boats as they became racing machines, so the colours became a bit boring - or grown up - or less uncool - depending upon viewpoint.

Note less uncool. Windsurfing was cool, kite fooling, cool. Uncool will still be there when cool has moved on.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy