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    Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by mongrel

Wooden Bonezzis’ were plywood, still very sought after, as quick/quicker than the FRPs’.

Well I never knew that. Always thought they were built from summat  exotic. I stand corrected.

I think that is an anomaly. My cold moulded IC was no comparison to the epoxy carbon foam sandwich one that replaced it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CapSizer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by mongrel

Wooden Bonezzis’ were plywood, still very sought after, as quick/quicker than the FRPs’.

Well I never knew that. Always thought they were built from summat  exotic. I stand corrected.

I think that is an anomaly. My cold moulded IC was no comparison to the epoxy carbon foam sandwich one that replaced it. 

Well, isn't the Contender known to be quite heavy?  So if the weight limit is high, it makes sense that wood can be reasonably competitive, witness Contender and OK.  Whereas if the limit is low, as with the Phantom, wood cannot really compete. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by CapSizer

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by mongrel

Wooden Bonezzis’ were plywood, still very sought after, as quick/quicker than the FRPs’.

Well I never knew that. Always thought they were built from summat  exotic. I stand corrected.

I think that is an anomaly. My cold moulded IC was no comparison to the epoxy carbon foam sandwich one that replaced it. 

Well, isn't the Contender known to be quite heavy?  So if the weight limit is high, it makes sense that wood can be reasonably competitive, witness Contender and OK.  Whereas if the limit is low, as with the Phantom, wood cannot really compete. 

+1 that’s the death of ply boats in a nut shell. Newer boats designed with a  10kg lower weight for questionably small increase  in  performance but enough to make GRP boat building profitable and obsolete lots of great wooden boats. 


Edited by tink - 29 Jul 20 at 7:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by CapSizer

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by mongrel

Wooden Bonezzis’ were plywood, still very sought after, as quick/quicker than the FRPs’.

Well I never knew that. Always thought they were built from summat  exotic. I stand corrected.

I think that is an anomaly. My cold moulded IC was no comparison to the epoxy carbon foam sandwich one that replaced it. 

Well, isn't the Contender known to be quite heavy?  So if the weight limit is high, it makes sense that wood can be reasonably competitive, witness Contender and OK.  Whereas if the limit is low, as with the Phantom, wood cannot really compete. 

+1 that’s the death of ply boats in a nut shell. Newer boats designed with a  10kg lower weight for questionably small increase  in  performance but enough to make GRP boat building profitable and obsolete lots of great wooden boats. 

but in the Phantom's case the boat was already designed to be 61kgs but it was rare that any wooden boats actually got near it (Claridges apart). The GRP boats didn't on the whole either but they enabled owners to have relatively maintenence free sailing.

As for Jim's comment about the frp/grp boats etc, well all of the early epoxy boats came from the same mould as the polyester boats so the performance gain must have come from the weight or stiffness gains (assuming there were some).  I certainly know that when I moved from a poly boat to an epoxy one it was like a different class, so much more responsive, in fact too much and I fell in backwards on a reach. My epoxy boat had 1.5kgs cof correctors too so a massive overall difference to the old boat. I was still using a tin rig at the time and it didn't slow me down overall.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 9:30am
Originally posted by mongrel

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by mongrel

Originally posted by Cirrus

If you have a class that already has compound curves available via the composite route it still does not matter how tight you then set the measurement rules .. whatever the rules or wording you simply cannot make ply bend to match the compound curves that are very straightforward in an optimised FRP composite. 

Er Contender?

Not sure what the contender reference is intended to mean, but the wooden boats are cold moulded, aren't they - not ply. AFAIK Signore Bonezzi(?) in Italy still builds beautiful hulls but I bet they are eye-wateringly expensive.
Wooden Bonezzis’ were plywood, still very sought after, as quick/quicker than the FRPs’.

Bonezzi Contenders are cold moulded in wood using epoxy resin infusion techniques. I suspect if you told Mr Bonezzi his boats were made from plywood he would be quite upset Ouch 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 9:49am
If one wishes to be pedantic (and this is the internet [grin]) moulding from veneers is simply the process of creating curved plywood on the mould...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CapSizer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 10:01am
Originally posted by JimC

If one wishes to be pedantic (and this is the internet [grin]) moulding from veneers is simply the process of creating curved plywood on the mould...

It's plywood, Jim, but not as we know it!


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Post Options Post Options   Quote mongrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 11:07am
Originally posted by CapSizer

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by mongrel

Wooden Bonezzis’ were plywood, still very sought after, as quick/quicker than the FRPs’.

Well I never knew that. Always thought they were built from summat  exotic. I stand corrected.

I think that is an anomaly. My cold moulded IC was no comparison to the epoxy carbon foam sandwich one that replaced it. 

Well, isn't the Contender known to be quite heavy?  So if the weight limit is high, it makes sense that wood can be reasonably competitive, witness Contender and OK.  Whereas if the limit is low, as with the Phantom, wood cannot really compete. 
I’d agree with that, that the conservative weight limit of the Contender and OK allow wooden construction to remain competitive, also as mentioned earlier, the shape of the OK being quite boxy promotes quite a stiff structure.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 11:42am
Originally posted by JimC

If one wishes to be pedantic (and this is the internet [grin]) moulding from veneers is simply the process of creating curved plywood on the mould...

LOL LOL LOL

I still think that going up to the bloke with the shiny new Bonezzi Contender and saying "how are you liking your plywood boat?" is asking for a knuckle sandwich  Ouch


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 30 Jul 20 at 11:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 20 at 11:54am
Right, definitive answer, according to the CED Plywood is "wood in sheets that is made of several thin layers glues together" so a cold moulded boat is not made of 'plywood' ('cos it's not in sheets).

Unfortunately for this argument the OED says "A type of strong thin wooden board consisting of two or more layers glued and pressed together with the direction of the grain alternating." which is slightly less definitive thou "a type of strong thin wooden board" does imply that the material starts out as flat.

But what do we dinghy bods know anyway, we can't even decide what FRP stands for.... Ermm
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