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Demise of Dinghy Innovation?
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    Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 11:20am
Originally posted by KazRob

Originally posted by epicfail

I wonder how many people have considered dinghy sailing, maybe done a RYA course and given up cos they can't find a class that they like? 

Having said that I would love to have the ability (grade one CSE in Woodwork notwithstanding) to design and build myself a single handed dinghy but would I enjoy sailing my one off more than my aged Europe? Probably not. 

The development of the OK kit boats is an interesting twist that makes home built a bit more workable for the average modern person and I'm sure the method could be applied to other designs, new or existing.
The main plus point is that there is almost zero wood cutting to be done. You send the CNC files to a laser cutting shop and they do the millimeter accurate cutting of all the ply panels and the jig to build it in. It then all comes together as a flat pack, building the accurate jig first and then the boat inside it. No messy stitch and glue - just epoxy fillets that most people can handle. Dan Leech who did the OK kit reckons about 60hours build time for the average person and you get a boat as fast as any other in the world and painted no-one would know it's not plastic. Have a look at http://www.leechboats.com/sail/leech-ok-dinghy

The OK can do this because it has, sensibly, a relatively heavy weight compared to some original kit boats that are impossible to build from wood to weight by the average Joe. To further make a wooden boat less likely the once kit boats are now made in foam sandwich all baked in ovens. Obviously it market driven but a shame. 
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andy h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 10:57am
I would certainly agree that there's more home building, conversion and repair going on down here in Aus than there is in the UK.  It's not exactly like the '60's plywood home build dinghy boom, but people are significantly more confident to tackle things for some reason.
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Posts: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 10:48am
Originally posted by epicfail

I wonder how many people have considered dinghy sailing, maybe done a RYA course and given up cos they can't find a class that they like? 

Having said that I would love to have the ability (grade one CSE in Woodwork notwithstanding) to design and build myself a single handed dinghy but would I enjoy sailing my one off more than my aged Europe? Probably not. 

The development of the OK kit boats is an interesting twist that makes home built a bit more workable for the average modern person and I'm sure the method could be applied to other designs, new or existing.
The main plus point is that there is almost zero wood cutting to be done. You send the CNC files to a laser cutting shop and they do the millimeter accurate cutting of all the ply panels and the jig to build it in. It then all comes together as a flat pack, building the accurate jig first and then the boat inside it. No messy stitch and glue - just epoxy fillets that most people can handle. Dan Leech who did the OK kit reckons about 60hours build time for the average person and you get a boat as fast as any other in the world and painted no-one would know it's not plastic. Have a look at http://www.leechboats.com/sail/leech-ok-dinghy
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 10:03am
Originally posted by iGRF

So design the craft around a windsurfer mast then.. Simples They carry up to 12 mtrs of sail area and work a lot more eficiently than anything I've seen adorning the dross I've owned to date.


Dinghies all have vastly more righting moment and thus side force thus bending / compressive load thana windsurf application. Only way to make a windsurf mast worked would be in a stayed application with a lot of spreaders like an old ior yacht, which would be more expensive than having the right tube in he first place.

Cirrus is right Aero masts are produced in an italian factory which makes windsuf masts for oems, but the aero mast will be 4 to 5kg I think, whereas equivalent windsurf mast is ~2kg maybe, as the aero application is a cantilever with lots of RM compared to a windsurfer. It is on a cylindrical mandrel though, and the factory in question will be efficient at producing tubes of that sort of length in large volumes on cylindrical mandrels.
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 7:20am
Originally posted by davidyacht

A bigger problem is that nobody seems to hold stock of carbon masts.

Because it's a large financial outlay for something that could go out of fashion or become obsolete at any time.
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Posts: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mongrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 6:14am
Originally posted by davidyacht

I would love to see a narrow waterline, wide sit out single hander with a boomed self tacking jib ... for personal enjoyment.
How about a scaled up low rider moth (12’ ish), late Axeman or similar, to take 80 to 90kg, able to be made from ply sheets, no standing rigging but using a windsurf mast dropped into a socket, with a sleeved sail.
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 20 at 5:35am
Originally posted by Cirrus

So design the craft around a windsurfer mast then

Like the Aero then from what I've heard ?

The UFO was specifically designed to use a windsurfer mast and the Dave Clark copied the Herreshoff wishbone boom to add stiffness and control. 

If there has been a great development in recent years it is the modern interpretation of that rig. 

Details of the rig at the bottom with a picture of the Herreshoff original 
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 10:34pm
So design the craft around a windsurfer mast then

Like the Aero then from what I've heard ?
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 10:00pm
So design the craft around a windsurfer mast then.. Simples They carry up to 12 mtrs of sail area and work a lot more eficiently than anything I've seen adorning the dross I've owned to date.
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

I think the problem with the price of carbon spars is that there there is a performance gain to be had by spending more ... higher modulus carbon allows for lighter and narrower sections, and better detailing costs more.  So it is very prone to an arms race.  With no disrespect to my learned colleague a typical dinghy mast has more material, more detailing and does not benefit from the volumes that were available in the windsurfing industry ... where I sold a fair few.

A bigger problem is that nobody seems to hold stock of carbon masts, in some classes it is harder to get a mast than a boat!


Exactly there is a fair bit of commonality in the tools (mandrels) but outside the OEM stuff the volumes are too small for even batch building. A 430 windsurf mast is a couple of kg and thousands get made each year.  most dinghy masts are double that, have all sorts of brackets and fittings etc and are built in sub cottage volumes.

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