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Demise of Dinghy Innovation?
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

The OK is having a bit of a renaissance with kit build plywood boats being competitive with FRP off the shelf product.  Home build seems to still be deriguer in the Antipodes where it is no longer the case in the UK.

The great UK development classes have boxed themselves into a bit of a corner with regard to difficulty of build and complexity, with some notable exceptions.  Merlins, 12s, 14s and Moths all had a substantial band of home builders, now this appears to be a daunting proposition if you don’t have quite specialised resources.

So I would suggest that any development singlehander would best go down a plywood prepack route.


I think the days of garage builders in ply are long gone in UK. It would only ever be niche. I know professional engineers who are afraid to change a wheel on a car.

My observation is that the antipodeans are very much more boat proud, have more of a have a go attitude regarding that sort of thing than us brits - most UK sailors are middle class working in the tertiary service economy and the cultural precendents for making stuff in one's garage is long since dead, plus the opportunity cost of doing it oneself rather than paying a grubby boatbuilder is too high.

And yes all development classes in their own way require skills / knowledge and investment in tooling well beyond even a competant amateur could achieve.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 8:35pm
I think the problem with the price of carbon spars is that there there is a performance gain to be had by spending more ... higher modulus carbon allows for lighter and narrower sections, and better detailing costs more.  So it is very prone to an arms race.  With no disrespect to my learned colleague a typical dinghy mast has more material, more detailing and does not benefit from the volumes that were available in the windsurfing industry ... where I sold a fair few.

A bigger problem is that nobody seems to hold stock of carbon masts, in some classes it is harder to get a mast than a boat!
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:50pm
The big problem I see, is the outrageous rig costs we all get conned into paying. Carbon masts shouldn't be two grand, sails shouldn't be a grand. It's a joke, but there's such a cartel of closed shoppery screwing all and everyone, and no significant volume to leverage better deals. Another fault of the classes not combining. If a few of them bought into a mast style, the prices could be leveraged down. Carbon is cheap these days, but 'they' all live off the past experiences when it was thought of as exotic.

Edited by iGRF - 22 Jul 20 at 7:53pm
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:36pm
The OK is having a bit of a renaissance with kit build plywood boats being competitive with FRP off the shelf product.  Home build seems to still be deriguer in the Antipodes where it is no longer the case in the UK.

The great UK development classes have boxed themselves into a bit of a corner with regard to difficulty of build and complexity, with some notable exceptions.  Merlins, 12s, 14s and Moths all had a substantial band of home builders, now this appears to be a daunting proposition if you don’t have quite specialised resources.

So I would suggest that any development singlehander would best go down a plywood prepack route.
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:29pm
Home building is a very limited enthusiast area IMHO. Times have changed. Instant fix is what its about.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:16pm
I wonder if there were plans for something modern yet hand build, wether it would get much uptake. I mean you could design something say small fireball style wash through unirig, flat panels you could buy and assemble like flat carbon foam sheets, instead of ply, Carbon rig, sail plan available for any builder.

I was surprised the number of Farr37 home builders, that once built as enjoyable to sail as the Farr is/was, lack anything to do with it and a total worthless handicap number so it could never compete and is probably a bit undersize for todays average clinically obese weight levels most of y'all seem to be...

If you had say a box rule, a sail plan, a set of budgets, could it get off the ground? Probably not
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Would be interesting to see a shape changing Hull, shape is adjustable to suit single handed or double handed, plus change shape to suit beating, running etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne_rlswt1B8
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:11pm
I would love to see a narrow waterline, wide sit out single hander with a boomed self tacking jib ... for personal enjoyment.

IMO it is a shame that nobody has really grasped one of the older two man two sail one designs and given it the makeover that Winder/Speed did with the Solo.

To be frank, as was posted elsewhere today, keep it simple stupid ... most “improvements” add to the cost, which takes away from the enjoyment of the masses.


Edited by davidyacht - 22 Jul 20 at 7:26pm
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by epicfail

Does it matter, what developments do you want? It's sailing, find a boat you like and sail it.


Well yes it does, because after a while you just get fed up and do something else if you can't find what you want.

Originally posted by JimC

There's never been a successful mainstream development singlehander in the UK, and yet that's where all the interest is at the moment.

I'm at a loss for ideas.


I often wonder why that is, Is it that there's never been a 'box and sail' rule or motivation to achieve it, or have boats like the Moth just demonstrated what extremities eventually folk will go to?


There are internationally box rules that are successful PD racer / OZ goose and Diecipiedi 


Unfortunately culturally here in the UK we aren’t interested in a few blokes agreeing a non performance rule and messing about in the garage over night.

A box rule with limits the build to 3 sheets of 4mm ply excluding foils, no carbon but as much glass as you like would be fun. 



Edited by tink - 22 Jul 20 at 7:10pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 6:05pm
Would be interesting to see a shape changing Hull, shape is adjustable to suit single handed or double handed, plus change shape to suit beating, running etc.
Robert
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