Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Tower trapezing |
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Riv ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:08am |
Looks fun, is it the way to go? Is it banned already? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGowhQe7-c I can see loads of advantages and a few minor problems, it would certainly add to the spectator value of the sport as sailors approach the skill level of gymnasts. Think how sailing clothing design would change. Shoulder pads, climbing pegs on the side of the crews wetsuits, innovations galore. Finally should you put the bigger sailor on top of the little one or vice-versa, or is it best to swap positions regularly and have two sailor of the same build. Will pyhsios like it, looks like a good way to pick up back injuries. I always wondered if IC sailors were allowed to trapeze of the end of the seat......
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Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Completely bonkers
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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PeterG ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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I'd love to see that done in a shifty breeze
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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dohertpk ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 172 |
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It has been banned for years...
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dohertpk ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 172 |
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https://49er.org/blog/tower-trapezing-outlawed/
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Riv ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353 |
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Have all appropriate classes banned it. Why ban it anyway; is it too difficult for olympic level sailors to do?
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Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6662 |
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Add 20% righting moment to just about any boat and you'd really need to be throwing your rigs and foils away. Probably hulls too because of the extra loads.
Paul Bieker once said to me "Everyone said twin trapezes would be a really cheap way to go faster [on Int 14s], then we all got to chuck our hulls." If you tried trapezing off the end of a standard IC sliding seat then it would immediately slide back into the middle. There has been at least one IC fitted with wide wings and a trapeze rather than the plank, but it doesn't seem to have been very satisfactory. Edited by JimC - 08 Mar 20 at 6:18pm |
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Neptune ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314 |
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For the life of me I can’t work out how transverse toes straps work on an IC... i desperately want a go in one through they look amazing
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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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To add to what Jim says, back in the days when 18 Foot Skiffs had far fewer restrictions and there were no limits on rig size or wingspan, there was one "world" title in the bay off Brisbane, where winds are far steadier than in Sydney. The top competitors realised that they could just add wing extensions and then extensions on the extensions so they could get more righting moment. The problem was that this increased load on the foils, with one top boat (Chesty Bond) breaking two (IIRC) centreboards and losing the title to Rob Brown, who (according to Chesty's forward hand) had managed to clean the whole city out of carbon fibre to use it to reinforce his own foils and wings as he upped his wingspan to 30 ft.
I'm fairly sure there's still new footage of Chesty snapping two centreboards up on YT. Those who were there are definite that the loads were greatly increased and that the wider wings were unmanageable in normal shiftier conditions. The comments by Bieker were matched by ones about Bieker, to the tune of "Paul said that adding wings to the rudders would just make the boats faster, then we got to chuck our hulls" because changing one design parameter tends to change the rest.
Edited by CT249 - 09 Mar 20 at 11:19am |
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Dougaldog ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Riv (as original poster)…..this was pretty much the 'meat' in my topic at the Dinghy Show, when I was discussing the development of the performance single hander. The conclusion was a question - in boats such as the Musto Skiff, have single handers reached a final plateau of development. You can't add in any more sail, because there is not a lot more in the way of righting moment to be had. Way back in the day, Elvstrom did try a single hander that had a massively long plank, but very quickly binned the idea as 'unsailable'. There was talk a couple of years ago of a boat based on the B14 hull that would have wide racks... I don't think it went very far and I can't say if it used the trapeze as well, but the physics suggest against it, As you move further outboard from the centreline, the angle subtended between the trapeze wire and the mast increases, with being out on the wire becoming ever more difficult. Right back in the early days, the Coronet (which begat the 5o5) had a trapeze, but with the take off for the wires being at spreader height, which simply didn't work. In the famous Round the Island dinghy race, Coronet lost out big time to Osprey, which had the trapeze wires taken up to the hounds and John Westell, who was crewing on Coronet, had to watch at the ease with which Cliff Norbury on Osprey could trapeze and tack as they slogged along the beat from St. Cats Point to Sandown. So back to that all important question - could you make an even more extreme single handed boat.... yes of course, but who would actually be able to sail such a boat? Why look at a boat that is only applicable to a small number of super elite sailors, when boats like the IC and MPS offer peak performance today as part of an established international circuit! Dougal
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Dougal H
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