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Defibs at clubs.

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NicolaJayne View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by ColPrice2002

The one problem I see with the external units is that one needs a mobile phone to call for the unlock code...
How many of us have a mobile with them while around the sailing area? That is ready to sail or recover dinghies?

I also wonder how useful they are for a casualty at the far end of the lake. Given that the rescue team need to reach the casualty, recover to safety boat, then reach the clubhouse - even at full power it will take several minutes for the process.
Obviously, for members not sailing it's potentially useful.

Colin


calling for a code is  to do with two things 

1. security  for  a device  with  otherwise unrestriCted access 
2. ensures that  links 1, 3 +4  in the 'chain of survival' are in place  https://www.resus.org.uk/resuscitation-guidelines/adult-basic-life-support-and-automated-external-defibrillation/#chain

The GP surgery i am registered with has one of it;s defibs in one of these external cabinets by the   external door  to the surgery , on  every consulting room  wall and behind the reception desk  there is a poster with an aide memoire for  Emergencies  - on this is the defib box  code ... 

Ideal world  each  Rescue boat would be equipped with an AED in a suitably ruggedised  locker /  firmly  attached Peli case but that is ai cost / value  / benefit decision , having an AED available ashore still buys time compared to waiting for the 999 response  (  the possible  exception i can thnk of to that is  Hykeham if  Helimed 29  is  on  base at Waddington as  it could launch , barely  clear Waddington Circuit and put down at the club   faster than a road ambulance  would  get from the main road to the club never mind the response time to the gate   )

 it is  near impossible to do  decent CPR in a rescue boat ( vs doing it in a full on lifeboat  or similar sized workboat/ committee boat / yacht ), the optimal answer is casualt to nearest land and resources to casualty on that nearest land  ( it;s why ambulance crews will remove someone from a normal domestic bed to the floor  or their  trolley  to do CPR  - to provider the counter pressure of being on a solid base 



Edited by NicolaJayne - 19 Feb 20 at 12:48pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 1:07pm
How do you check for patients who do not want to be resuscitated? Do you have to? Does use of defibrillator constitute resuscitation? Would we be liable if we resuscitate a patient, who comes around and is paralysed, who is a do not resuscitate?
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 4:48pm
No, we wouldn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 4:51pm
Frightening, what we have come to, should I help this person?
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Frightening, what we have come to, should I help this person?


I await proper advice from a medical professional, but I have a relative in a similar position. The requirement is to display clearly the relevant DNR form or to keep it in a very obvious medical file. I find it hard to believe that someone in this position would not come to a sailing club without making their position very clear to someone who would be with them at all times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 5:12pm
Member of the public.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 6:29pm
There is a Good Samaritan law, but its mainly to offer some support for off duty medical professionals, not very well written.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 20 at 7:13pm
https://www.soasafety.co.uk/will-i-be-sued-for-giving-first-aid/

Advanced Decisions

What is a 'Living Will'?

A Living Will or, more accurately, an Advanced Decision allows a person over 18 years to refuse specified medical treatment for a time in the future when they might nor have the mental capacity to consent or refuse to that treatment.

Advanced Notices are commonly used where a patient with a known or predicted medical condition sets out their wishes – while they have the capacity to do so – regarding future treatment.  Typically this may be that an patient with a degenerative health problem may request that should they suffer a cardiac arrest, they are not resuscitated.

For a patient to refuse life sustaining treatment, the Advance Notice must be:

  • be in writing (it can be written by someone else or recorded in healthcare notes);
  • be signed and witnessed; and
  • state clearly that the decision applies even if life is at risk.

 

In terms of a First Aider responding to a life threatening situation it is unreasonable to assume they would be aware of this written document.   It may be that a person known to the casualty attempts to prevent the treatment of First Aid if the casualty has made an Advanced Notice.  Again, it is difficult and unreasonable  for the First Aider to make a judgement about the validity of this claim.

Should any bystander attempt to prevent life-saving treatment of the casualty, the emergency services should be called as paramedics and other healthcare professionals can – in certain circumstances –  provide life saving treatment without or against consent. 

Further reading:  NHS - Advance Decisions

Excerpt taken from 'First aid & the law part 1 - Duty of care.

 




Edited by 423zero - 19 Feb 20 at 7:33pm
Robert
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NicolaJayne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 1:36am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

Originally posted by 423zero

Frightening, what we have come to, should I help this person?


I await proper advice from a medical professional, but I have a relative in a similar position. The requirement is to display clearly the relevant DNR form or to keep it in a very obvious medical file. I find it hard to believe that someone in this position would not come to a sailing club without making their position very clear to someone who would be with them at all times.


If  the  DNAR  status cannot be proven to  satisfaction of the responders  CPR is commenced  and worked  until a practitioner   who has the authorisation to call it is present  if there is no response 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 3:51pm
Sometimes I work with people who have DNRs, however from the careplans it is made clear that it is DNR only in specific circumstances.
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