The Zone.

   Interesting topic on the Dinghy and boat advice FB group.
An Optimist and a Norfolk Punt are approaching a mark together* and the the Punt is clear astern but, almost certainly, sailing faster. The Punt is behind when it reaches three lengths from the mark (roughly 18 metres) but the Oppi has not entered the zone (<7 metres). At this point the rules are clear but what if the Punt gets his bow ahead of the Oppi before the Oppi reaches his 3 length 'zone'? Does the punt 'zone' apply? I think it must but the Punt may already be a full length inside it's 'zone' by this time.

* Vanishingly unlikely I know but somebody posed the question........

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Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Topic: The Zone. Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 5:12pm
	Interesting topic on the Dinghy and boat advice FB group. An Optimist and a Norfolk Punt are approaching a mark together* and the the Punt is clear astern but, almost certainly, sailing faster. The Punt is behind when it reaches three lengths from the mark (roughly 18 metres) but the Oppi has not entered the zone (<7 metres). At this point the rules are clear but what if the Punt gets his bow ahead of the Oppi before the Oppi reaches his 3 length 'zone'? Does the punt 'zone' apply? I think it must but the Punt may already be a full length inside it's 'zone' by this time. * Vanishingly unlikely I know but somebody posed the question........
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 5:29pm
	I think this is more of a safety issue, who would run down a child in a Oppy with a Punt ?
	Robert

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 5:36pm
	Exactly, I'd expect the Punt to stay out of the way too but, as an academic question it's interesting (ok, not very but maybe I have too much time on my hands....).
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 5:45pm
	Surely the zone that counts is the lead boat's? So the punt has mark room if inside overlapped on the Oppie before 3 oppie lengths.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 5:46pm
	Probably work better with a Mirror and a Punt
	Robert

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 6:08pm
	The zone that counts is that of the boat nearest the mark. So until the bow of the Punt is closer to the mark than the Oppi the Oppi's zone of around 7 metres is the one that counts. If the punt gets nearer the mark than the Oppi before the Oppi reaches it's zone then I guess the Oppi's zone becomes irrelevant and the 18 metre circle that represents the Punt's zone becomes the one that matters.* But yeah, either way (Mirror or Oppi) if the Punt is inside it is entitled to room and if outside would have to give the oppi room. * might be more interesting with a foiling Moth (3.3m) and a Punt (6.27m) or Thames Rater (9m+?)
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423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 6:35pm
	Might as well go whole Hog and say AC cat versus Oppy
	Robert

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 6:46pm
	That would be pretty much the same (just a matter of degree) with the smaller boat being the slower boat. But, with the Moth/Thames Rater conflict the smaller boat is quite likely to be the boat closing from behind. However that would mean the situation, as described, wouldn't arise.
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 7:29pm
	Like a lot of these angels dancing on a pin questions I suspect the answer is simpler than its portrayed. The only time the inside boat doesn't get mark room is if one boat was clear ahead when she reached the zone. Yes, the zone magically expands when the longer boat overtakes the shorter boat. But so what. The boats are overlapped. The shorter boat reached the zone when the longer boat got closer to the mark.

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 20 at 8:16pm
	I think an Oppy would win without PY adjustment on our small pond, AC wouldn't make the turns.
	Robert