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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Technical protest
    Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 1:30pm
I'm not and have never been an official measurer for any class, but I have been involved in contributing to class rules for Cherubs and ICs. So take that for what its worth.

If I were looking at a Merlin I would say that a fence becomes a foil when it has any lifting capability, and most especially if there is any control capability of changing the angle of incidence. So if its a small structure not extending beyond the likely boundary area of the flow round the blade, with a symmetrical section oriented as close as possible to the likely local water flow its a fence.

Looking at the Merlin rules I'd say for what little my opinion is worth that the dual purpose halyard bag/sail is a clear breach of G 1.2. If I were on a PC I wouldn't even bother to refer it to the CA. If the boat owner wished to appeal it then let him.

[later]
I've just looked at the rudder designs posted on the Merlin forum. I note
- structure which doesn't appear to extend beyond the boundary layer
- very low aspect ratio so very high drag if generating lift
- small total area
So unless there is some gear on the boat for changing the angle of incidence then I'd be quite happy with those - again for what little my opinion is worth.


Edited by JimC - 18 Nov 19 at 2:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by 423zero

People with ideas, perhaps they could Incorporate them into a new boat ?


What difference does it make if it's a new boat or old?

The halyard bag has been looked at by certain rya members and usb thought to be legal in the current rules. The class disagree. But haven't changed any rules or pointed to any specific violations.

Similar (but reverse) with rudder fences. They say they are legal but wings/foils are illegal. When does this fence become a foil? As the rules are written they are surely illegal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 12:57pm
They did and called it Crazy K-Yote Two  Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 12:37pm
People with ideas, perhaps they could Incorporate them into a new boat ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


It obviously worked, and was legal within the rule as it existed at the time.

It wasn't illegal, and wasn't prohibited from racing. It was merely given a rating which reflected the actual likely performance on the race course, which was something specifically required in the rule. How useful the innovation was is handily demonstrated by the fact that no other boat has been seen with a torsionally bending mast since!

If the way the 'revised' rating was arrived at was by falsifying the measurements to better suit what the handicappers thought the rating should be that is clearly wrong. Designing a boat that exploits a 'loophole' in the rule has been going on as long as rating/handicap rules and development classes have existed. Mark Chisnell, in his article, takes a very balanced view IMO.

FWIW I choose to sail a SMOD but because I happen to like the boat, not because it has strict rules WRT modifications.  If we don't allow innovation we don't get progress in design. In my view it is totally within the 'spirit' of the rules and sailing would be much duller if we only had SMODs and strict one designs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


It obviously worked, and was legal within the rule as it existed at the time.

It wasn't illegal, and wasn't prohibited from racing. It was merely given a rating which reflected the actual likely performance on the race course, which was something specifically required in the rule. How useful the innovation was is handily demonstrated by the fact that no other boat has been seen with a torsionally bending mast since!

A few years ago I thought the kicker infill would be a good idea for my IC, so I had the mainsail cut a little bit smaller so that the total sail area including the infill would still be within the rules. When I actually tried it I hated it, so for the next few years I had fractionally undersized sails!

There are people who think that rule writing should be a logic chopping competition between the rule writers and the designers. That opinion is not shared by rule writers, who are more concerned with trying to make the rules as clear and fair as possible. Consider competitors whose first language is not that of the rule: that explains why playing word games should have no part in a sailing/design competition.

Edited by JimC - 18 Nov 19 at 11:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 10:52am
Whole thing bordering on unsportsmanlike behaviour.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 10:46am
It obviously worked, and was legal within the rule as it existed at the time. As has been said the CA can change the rule to take account of the innovation, either to outlaw it it or introduce a rating penalty to level the playing field but can't apply the new rule retrospectively. According to the Mark Chisnell article I linked above, the authorities re-rated the boat by falsifying the mast measurements remove the rating advantage the boat had under the rule. The owner, quite rightly, refused to sign the rating certificate as the numbers were incorrect.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 18 Nov 19 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 10:31am
The sum of the Krazy Kyote saga was that it was a long chord fixed mast that was designed to flex in rotation. So the designer hoped it would attract the rating credit for a very large fixed mast, but flex, at least upwind, sufficiently so that the actual drag of the mast would be nearer to that of a rotating mast, which of course gets a much smaller rating credit than a fixed one.

What happened was that the rule authorities said "OK, if its a mast that's inbetween a fixed mast and a rotating one, then we'll give you a rating credit that's inbetween too", at which point toys were thrown out of the pram.

Edited by JimC - 18 Nov 19 at 10:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 10:23am
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