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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Technical protest |
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KazRob 
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 22 Oct 16 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 245 |
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 Topic: Technical protestPosted: 15 Nov 19 at 12:05pm |
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At heart is this any different from someone using a replica Laser sail in a club Laser fleet? Indeed there's probably more room to get a relative speed increase out of using a specially cut non-class legal Laser sail than chasing loop holes in development classes
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OK 2249
D-1 138 |
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Brass
Really should get out more 
Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 15 Nov 19 at 12:06pm |
What a dick move that would be. If you can't prove that a boat broke a class rule how can you hope to prove that they broke rule 2? In any case it won't work. A boat or competitor shall not be penalised without a protest hearing (rule 63.1) Nobody except a protest committee can hold a protest hearing (rule 63.1 second sentence). A protest committee can only be appointed by an Organising Authority or a Race Committee (rule 91). While an MNA may act under its disciplinary regulations, it has no power to act under rule 69 (rule 69.3). If you think a boat broke a rule, and you are a 'boat', validly protest and get along to the protest hearing and argue your case. If you find the protest procedure repugnant, then have the decency to keep your mouth shut.
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 15 Nov 19 at 2:19pm |
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This highlights a whole raft of issues with handicap racing ... only those cognisant with a class will know what is class legal and what is not ... what is the difference between sailing a Laser with a knock off sail compared with a Merlin with a non woven sail? Do either make a difference to the time to complete the course ... probably not ... are either class legal?
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Happily living in the past
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 15 Nov 19 at 3:19pm |
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Its not really any different to class racing. If you enter a boat claiming it to be a member of class X then it must comply with all the class rules of Class X. If it doesn't that's cheating.
However there is not normally a requirement for boats to be a member of a recognised class in handicap races, so if you want to enter a boat that isn't a legal member of a class then you need to fully inform the RC so they can make a judgement about what handicap to allocate your mongrel. What they shouldn't do is refuse entry to mongrels. Edited by JimC - 15 Nov 19 at 3:23pm |
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 19 at 2:53pm |
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I'm not protesting anyone, it's not handicap racing, I've no interest in lasers or training sails (and davidyacht Merlin's can have any material sail as long as it is single ply)
It's a development class. I have the development on my boat, the measure says it's legal to me, the CA write to me saying I won't be allowed to compete in their open meetings with my boat in its current form. They are not protesting me, they are saying I won't be allowed to compete. Now who is making dick moves? And what is the non dick way of saying I'm legal? Have a protest at a sailing club in a normal club race, to set a precedent. If the CA do this and rig the system to ensure it is out lawed (by having the addition on a 'friendly' boat) and then protesting it by another 'friendly' boat and finding a protest committee of approved CA members. Can that protest only be appealed by the two protest boats?. If I'm not there to give the evidence I have regarding the rule? I just have to suck eggs? |
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 19 at 3:17pm |
I believe there are only a very limited number of reasons an exclusion might be considered improper. A race organiser, so far as I am aware, is quite entitled to hold an event for (say) Merlin class boats that don't have such and such a feature. If you think about it the de May series for vintage boats is precisely that. A protest at a club race doesn't set a precedent. If you haven't broken a rule you can't be disqualified for breaking a rule. However I see no reason why an entry can't be refused. It is, of course, a very strange way of going about things: if you want to ban a development change the damn rules, but it doesn't appear to be prohibited. |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 19 at 5:26pm |
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Interesting that the Merlin rules state a 'single ply' sail but laminate sails are allowed. Surely, by definition, a laminate has to have more than a single ply?
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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fudheid
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 19 at 1:17pm |
Ply is defined in the ERS ... Sheet of sail material, laminate is exactly that . |
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Cheers you
only me from over the sea...... |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 19 at 5:48pm |
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Ah, ok. They specifically prohibit sleeved luffs though the 'single ply' wording seems to do the same thing.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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gbrspratt
Posting king 
Joined: 26 Sep 11 Location: Felixstowe Online Status: Offline Posts: 170 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 19 at 6:33pm |
No double luffs. But ply is still ply. No matter it's construction method. What it stops you from doing is putting tapes through the middle of the sail making an old school tape drive sail. Or twin plying high load areas. |
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