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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Frankenboat - what's yours?
    Posted: 14 May 18 at 12:19pm
I do find all this rather amusing coming from TT who clearly possesses a much greater disposable income than I have ever enjoyed. Clearly trolling is a sport open to all income groups, although I suspect, on the basis of minimal evidence and unjustifiable preconceptions, that it too probably has an educated middle class bias. Like racism though*, it probably knows no cultural barriers.


*if you've ever had the dubious task of monitoring an email content checking system, you know that racism does indeed know no barriers, and its rather amusing how quickly a new racist joke is circulated with only the names changed.
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Ultimate thread drift
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by JimC

Clearly trolling is a sport open to all income groups, although I suspect, on the basis of minimal evidence and unjustifiable preconceptions, that it too probably has an educated middle class bias. Like racism though*, it probably knows no cultural barriers.  

unfortunately not... I do believe the rise in armed crime in inner city London, with an unfortunate racial undertone, has largely been blamed on the escalation of trolling on social media.


This little foray into the socio-economic characteristics of Royston Vasey SC and its wider identity politique, is on the other, just a distraction and extrapolation of the accusations of cheating and gerrymandering levelled by our dear friend and contributor, iGRF....  
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by turnturtle

Where I do have a bit more thoughts (mixed opinions too), is gender inequality.  I think it's strange that in the 21st Century sailing clubs needs to promote single sex sessions - Women on the Water as they have become known.  

I totally RESPECT women taking ownership over these sessions and getting on the water as they see fit.   I'm just curious as to why they are necessary and what environment the blokes were creating in the first place that these women feel the need for them?  It's a genuine question - as a dad of two girls, I can't imagine introducing them to a sport where they will want segregation by gender in the future.  It's alien to every other aspect of how we are parenting them.

I am really intrigued by this point ... we have a very successful (well as I see it) Women on the Water program ... I stand to be castigated, but as I see it, it is not intended to be competitive, though as competencies improve we see more of this group progressing into the weekend racing programme.  I don't see the problem with this single sex group (safety boats manned by men), I think it is great that participation in the sport is being expanded by such initiatives.
        

indeed- I agree, it is great to see participation expanded.  And I would re-state - total respect for the people (women) who have driven it forward.   But I do have a mixed/confused opinion on it....  merely from the point of view on what these sessions offer that clearly wasn't in place before and if actually there really is need for gender division to provision for what it offers.    

As just a passing example of gender bias, check out this picture from the front page rallying talent for sponsorship.... how many women do you see in the picture?  What message does this send to female athletes?  Do female athletes even care they are not 'represented' in this picture, or do they feel the men featured represent all sailors anyway?  Who knows....  



Edited by turnturtle - 14 May 18 at 2:04pm
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by turnturtle

Where I do have a bit more thoughts (mixed opinions too), is gender inequality.  I think it's strange that in the 21st Century sailing clubs needs to promote single sex sessions - Women on the Water as they have become known.  

I totally RESPECT women taking ownership over these sessions and getting on the water as they see fit.   I'm just curious as to why they are necessary and what environment the blokes were creating in the first place that these women feel the need for them?  It's a genuine question - as a dad of two girls, I can't imagine introducing them to a sport where they will want segregation by gender in the future.  It's alien to every other aspect of how we are parenting them.

I am really intrigued by this point ... we have a very successful (well as I see it) Women on the Water program ... I stand to be castigated, but as I see it, it is not intended to be competitive, though as competencies improve we see more of this group progressing into the weekend racing programme.  I don't see the problem with this single sex group (safety boats manned by men), I think it is great that participation in the sport is being expanded by such initiatives.
        

indeed- I agree, it is great to see participation expanded.  And I would re-state - total respect for the people (women) who have driven it forward.   But I do have a mixed/confused opinion on it....  merely from the point of view on what these sessions offer that clearly wasn't in place before and if actually there really is need for gender division to provision for what it offers.    

As just a passing example of gender bias, check out this picture from the front page rallying talent for sponsorship.... how many women do you see in the picture?  What message does this send to female athletes?  Do female athletes even care they are not 'represented' in this picture, or do they feel the men featured represent all sailors anyway?  Who knows....  


But I note you did not mention the fact that everyone was white
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H2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 3:26pm
On the racism question - over the years I have taken many of my Black and Asian friends sailing and most have given me the same feedback that they report feeling the cold in instances that I feel quite warm. I actually looked into this as part of a project at work and discovered that it is a scientific fact that people with heritage from warm countries have a much reduced ability to shut off blood flow to the capillaries that flow nearest the skin (these are called shunt valves) so whereas a white person can stop warm blood flowing closer to the skin a black or asian person's body lacks the biological ability to do the same resulting in greater heat loss. This is a reason cited in a number of studies for the lower than anticipated participation in a number of sports including skiing, surfing, canoeing, mountaineering etc. That does not mean that other factors are not in play in society that may have blocked these sections of society from our sport but it is a factor.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 3:30pm
That is very true Jack, deliberate on my part... focusing on the gender bias over the racial one.  

I guess I see one as a real issue, whereas the other as an observable participation bias.  
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

That is very true Jack, deliberate on my part... focusing on the gender bias over the racial one.  

I guess I see one as a real issue, whereas the other as an observable participation bias.  

AHA! I have just Trolled the Troller. Although I 'WAS' hoping for a more spirited response ;-) 
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 4:35pm
haha - triple trolled if you want to.... but as the thread moved to a semi-serious state, I was being a bit selective of advertisement analysis.  Looking at the haircuts, I bet half of them were privately educated... and no facial tattoos or piercings either, dead give away.

maybe we should see if Stormzy could open the dinghy exhibition?  Although he's quite a religious chap and probably doesn't agree with skipping church to float around ponds in bathtubs.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 18 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by H2

This is a reason cited in a number of studies for the lower than anticipated participation in a number of sports including skiing, surfing, canoeing, mountaineering etc.



Edited by turnturtle - 14 May 18 at 4:41pm
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