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Frankenboat - what's yours?

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    Posted: 10 May 18 at 3:22pm
On Spinnaker vs crew: have seen many good sailors over the years be very mid fleet in boats like vareos and then step into a well sorted una rig and take a big leap forward up the fleet. Perhaps if you took the top 5% of sailors you would have a point but I am fairly sure that for the majority its really hard to get the benefit of a spinnaker on a pond. (Edit: at our club we have altered the PYs over the years and as a general rule assym boats have had to be given a boost and una rig singlehanders have had to be sandbagged in the handicaps due to this effect)

I know the rig is well understood but as you have no constraints why not try our an adjustable forestay which makes the rig so much better in lighter breeze upwind and to sail deeper on a run?


Edited by H2 - 10 May 18 at 3:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 3:13pm
There is no 'target market' for 'Hybrid' as such and no unduly restrictive time-programme.  It is purely experimental, not tied or restricted to a commercial project (yet) and was simply produced to test out the hull form.  It  uses the Blaze rigs at the moment as they are already well understood and are available.   Too often boat develpment projects try to assess everything at the same time under time/commercial pressures.   The rigs are known - so we can modify other factors and see which changes 'work' and which do not with a bit more certainty.

I fully understand the spinnaker and resticted water dilemma...but think as often it can be a spinnaker and crewing issue.  The purist view however is 'keep it simple' but light and very very efficient.  If you have a 'fast' hull  your options are always going to be wider whatever the configuration considered.   This hull is very easily driven and carries a wide range of crew weight very well but without excessive sail area - we'll see what makes sense in due course.



Edited by Cirrus - 10 May 18 at 3:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

The Blaze was one of the Howlett shapes .. at least some of you know.   The sole purpose of  'Hybrid' is to assess the potential for a winged (and very possibly with a spinnaker next) boat using a rather different hull form - with much more in common with the underwater profiles you find in NS14's, derivatives and similar.  It is purely a test bed (but a heck of a lot of fun !) using many used Blaze bits and pieces (that are to hand and can be re-used again usefully ).   With a standard Blaze rig it is a tad faster already as you would expect particularly offwind and slices through waves rather than 'rattle over the top' until fully planing upwind.  In full carbon as one builder has proposed (wings and hull) and with a more ergonomic developed deck it would be a total flyer.    It is longer, a bit wider and carries 'heavies' with the greatest of ease .. and we think it can therefore carry a bit more sail than the Blaze whilst still being 'easy' - so with a Halo sized sail will be similar to a Phantom and D1 area .. so that is the next test stage.  And yes - after that maybe we will see about a spinnaker....and whatever happens I myself will not be building them it is does get productionised !! (but I do get to do much of the 'fun' bit ;-) ) 

Sounds like fun - I do think that the singlehander with kite has been well and truly done any number of ways and most people who sail on small lakes that I have spoken too acknowledge that the kite is a dog on a small pond because its really hard in a handicap fleet to sail to your handicap due to weird leg angles, short legs etc plus there is a decent segment that wants a fast singlehander that is fast with just the mainsail rather than having the faff of a spinny too. Looks nice to me and I should be your target market.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 1:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 1:14pm
nothing wrong with the musto- it has the righting moment to make sailing with the kite a pleasure.  It's numbers show it's status and it respects it's a niche boat.  Nothing to really dislike other than the red trim on the sails which look a tad dated. 

there's nothing wrong with the RS100 either, but there's not a lot right about it too ;-)


Edited by turnturtle - 10 May 18 at 1:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 1:13pm
...  Oh No he wasn't

..... said the guy who decided a very very long time ago he was not up to actually going to sail with a spinnaker himself any more ... well that is after a few 'tests' or should that be 'trials'.

So what was really wrong with the 100 then or the Musto for that matter ?  



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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Cirrus

The Blaze was one of the Howlett shapes .. at least some of you know.   The sole purpose of  'Hybrid' is to assess the potential for a winged (and very possibly with a spinnaker next) boat using a rather different hull form - with much more in common with the underwater profiles you find in NS14's, derivatives and similar.  It is purely a test bed (but a heck of a lot of fun !) using many used Blaze bits and pieces (that are to hand and can be re-used again usefully ).   With a standard Blaze rig it is a tad faster already as you would expect particularly offwind and slices through waves rather than 'rattle over the top' until fully planing upwind.  In full carbon as one builder has proposed (wings and hull) and with a more ergonomic developed deck it would be a total flyer.    It is longer, a bit wider and carries 'heavies' with the greatest of ease .. and we think it can therefore carry a bit more sail than the Blaze whilst still being 'easy' - so with a Halo sized sail will be similar to a Phantom and D1 area .. so that is the next test stage.  And yes - after that maybe we will see about a spinnaker....and whatever happens I myself will not be building them it is does get productionised !! (but I do get to do much of the 'fun' bit ;-) ) 

Looks exciting ... Hadron on steroids; like the idea of a powerful winged singlehanded which might not be as sticky as some in light winds.  Would not be interested in one with a kite though ... too difficult in our crowded estuary.

Agree with the proper centreboard.

A group of our slightly more portly sailors have recently bought Phantoms, having looked at Hadron and Blaze as well; Hadron lost out because of lack of second hand stock and not being established, Blaze because of perception of being sticky in light winds ... and probably a bit of Topper image hangover.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 9:27am
Originally posted by turnturtle


.. you were right the first time.


<best pantomime> Oh No he wasn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 9:14am
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow


voodoo skiff iirc?

a bit of vapourware from the last decade.... shame, it looked really cool at least.

Mike - new boat looks very slick.  Don't bother with the kite ... you were right the first time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 18 at 8:54am
Very nice  - has some of the look we are envisaging for 'Hybrid' in any future deck moulding.  A very clean minimalist approach (but we would want 'kick bars', centreboard rather than dagger ... and a bit of a rig).  Retractable wings are also still a must - we need to be practical..... and the singlehander/trapeze/+ maybe spinnaker has already been done rather well.  So still a hiker of course.     
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