Laser 161752 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
SNAKES! |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 9:17pm |
Most of our new members are silver sailors, either learning or returning from a brief dalliance years before. Many of these people may only sail every now and again, but may join in with the club in many other ways. We talk about the demographic time bomb, but people get old all the time, and some will see sailing as a great way to stay healthy and join in with something new. It is racing that suffers from this, as our older racers tend to have either sailed right through life or have come back from many years of racing in the past.
Trouble is, there needs to be a balance between racing and other club activities, or a club starts to fade. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Dougal, As the only poster who used the term 'anti-RYA' in this thread, I want to make it clear that when I wrote: 'There is a small minority in the sailing world, who are a vocal minority here but drip enough BS to sound like a majority, who are just anti RYA. I have kids who are loving their squad work. I recognise some of the coach behaviours criticised earlier in this thread, but not from their RYA training. I thought about commenting but life is too short.' I was not referring to you or your article. I have heard enough of what you do, outside of your journalism, to know that you're not. I am however genuinely interested to understand what evidence lies behind the decline that you assert. I can accept a decline since the 70s and 80s, and possibly into the 90s. But I'm generally interested to understand the evidence - because you can't treat the disease without understanding the symptoms.
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Of course one thing we could all do is look at Sport England's Active People Survey. Sadly it's now an Active Lives Survey with no individual sport data. So the last year is 2016. And the data there is interesting:
https://www.sportengland.org/media/11746/1x30_sport_16plus-factsheet_aps10.pdf So year on year 14-15 to 15-16 saw a 23% fall in the number of once a week participants in sailing (by the way the way the survey works you have to do it 4 times in 4 weeks....). That's a massive 13,500 participants. Now look at Table 1. In Sep - Oct 2005 there were 64000, down to 59100 for Sep-Oct 2014-15. Then go to the third column for the period Apr 15 to Mar 16 (so half of that lying within the period in which we see the massive fall) -the numbers for sailing were up by 400. Now that tells me that something isn't quite right.... I'd be interested to hear what the statisticians out there have to say. But in any case let's just look at what we find within the sailing definition: 'Windsurfing or Boardsailing, Jet ski-ing / aquabike / personal water craft, Sailing – dinghy racing
(inc. multihull), sailing – dinghy cruising (inc. multihull), sailing – keelboat racing, sailing – keelboat cruising,
sailing – yacht racing (inc. multihull), sailing – yacht cruising (inc. multihull), powerboat racing' Hardly an indicator for dinghy sailing's decline is it?
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Actually Active Lives does have individual sport data:
https://www.sportengland.org/media/12458/active-lives-adult-may-16-17-report.pdf Link to it out of slide 9. Note that the measure is now twice in 28 days. Sailing more than doubles to 126000. Other sports increase, but I haven't yet found any that double. Again - not sure what it tells us.
Edited by sargesail - 31 Jan 18 at 11:07pm |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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I found an old survey from 2013 that showed things were on the up, thanks in part to an excellent summer, the weather playing its part as it does in water sports participation. Last year for me as a purveyor of kite equipment was excellent since it was quite windy, but nevertheless we have to accept what might be good for one sport isn't for the other, my hours in my boat were probably the lowest I've recorded since I've been messing about sitting down.
Then I had a google and found the latest summary of that same survey, it's here where I note racing in 2016 at least was up a tad even though the general trend is down. It's a fact across all the sports I either have been involved in commercially or am still involved in as a hobby, they are down because they are either no longer the 'in' thing or have lost the critical mass required to continue to introduce enough new folk to cope with natural wastage. I think small boat sail and racing is resilient in that it has critical mass and the fluctuations will be largely down to weather, and family trends. Even though I always feel throwing money at youf is wasted, there is sufficient volume to ensure returnees long into the future. But I do caution that the trend away from civil obedience and reluctance to observe rules and regs that has been prevalent since the 60's does sway a lot of folk away from the regulation that is such a part of our world and I think a simplification of the rules is long overdue. I also feel that a degree of stability in all things handicap is desperately required as I've said over and over, it's not that important in the greater scheme of things but like selling things generally, removing sales objections is key to the success of any product being marketed and at the end of the day that's what we're trying to do, market a leisure product and sport. Edited by iGRF - 01 Feb 18 at 9:34am |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Handicaps probably only effect the merry go round of boat ownership, rather than total numbers, I'd have thought.
But if fixed numbers will help, then maybe once the PYAG have 10 years of data from direct results, they could work out what the average handicap of classes has been over that time, and clubs that want to can use that fixed figure. Boats with major changes effecting speed would have to stay as experimental numbers. Likely, the fixed number will be as accurate for most classes as a moving one, given the huge influence of the weather and ability on boat speed. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Well a conspiracy theorist could make the argument that the continued movement is there to generate boat sales churn.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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They could, but I think weather, ability and even courses set that year are more likely culprits. That, and the errors in the previous system where handicaps barely moved, and the bandits classes were well know, still being corrected. Hopefully, this has nearly gone, now?
I was amazed last Sunday after jumping in our Topper to race, it being the only working boat in the fleet currently, that I was sailing off a handicap getting on for 100 higher than when I raced them 17 years ago. Admittedly it was harsh back then in anything barring survival conditions, but it did seem a little kind, now! |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Eisvogel ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Dec 16 Location: Birmingham Online Status: Offline Posts: 135 |
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Surely I can't be the only one who doesn't care what a boat's PY is when making a decision on what to sail in?
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Enterprise 20361 (Eisvogel), Laser 102727 (Halcyon), Laser 121986
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davidyacht ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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If it did help promote sales and participation then it must be a good thing
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Happily living in the past
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