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zippyRN View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 14 Sep 06
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: SNAKES!
    Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 11:38am
Originally posted by 423zero

Zippy RN,
Safety boat crew.


 wouldn;t be a minimum wage role ,

paid safety boat crew 

 at least Powerboat 2  if not  Safety boat   and/or Intermediate (vocational/professional) , 
 First aid certificate etc 

 casual pool lifeguarding rates  likely  to minimum  for  these people if you can find them ... and  not many  schools / sixth forms  offering  PB2 + safety boat  vs those offering bronze medallion /NPLQ 
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turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 12:24pm
'credit' against next year's membership fees would seem a better way around the actual employment in a club scenario.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 1:12pm
I was thinking thirty pounds cash no taxman.
Pay for their training.

Edited by 423zero - 31 Jan 18 at 1:13pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 1:44pm
A legal nightmare IMHO......
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Far too distracted from work


Joined: 05 Nov 10
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 1:53pm
As the author of the original article, I was about to come in with a comment about topic drift when on reflection it can be seen that actually, these issues are right at the heart of what is happening in some areas of the pastime/sport. What evolved as a volunteer managed activity, served by cottage industry suppliers, now faces a future that looks already to be far more commercially minded and yes, professionally aimed  at results (whatever 'results' might mean in various scenarios). Most of the better posters on here have pretty much hit the proud standing nails on the head at one point or another, which just highlights that there is no single cause, nor will there be a single answer.

Other posters, with little more than their own keyboard rhetoric as evidence (different for those who I've known on line for years) have taken me to task for being 'anti-RYA' which is a shame, for away from here I'm often working closely with them. Just a fortnight ago I spent a Saturday with them discussing Club Race Officer skills - a subject that is one that I am happy to be extra supportive of. Jim C is again spot on in his assessment of where to look for when there are screw ups and this is an area where I think help could be given. If you have to do 3 duties a year at your home club, that could be OOD, Rescue Boat, Race Officer or anything else under the umbrella of 'Chief cook and bottle washer'. You might have done an RO duty last year, but may not do  one this year - or next. Help for the RO - in terms of top down training - ought to be there to help these souls, rather than be aimed at someone who fancies a slot on the Committee Boat in Tokyo 2020. But try to engage on this - or on PYs, even with the intent of constructive dialogue can quickly result in a negative response. 
I hate to disappoint some of you but I very rarely 'chase' stories - most of them come to me in the first place. If people make contact with  details of what is happening, as a journalist, do you ignore it or somehow bring it into the public domain? This isn't Harry Potter, nor Beatrix Potter - these are people from within the sport, who knowing that I write as fairly as possible - contact me to tell me what has happened or what is being discussed. It's hardly whistle-blowing but in the fairly close knit world of suppliers and administrators, it can be very difficult to express a counter view.
There will now be a break before Part 3 - Ladders - for those who have been insightful I can but express thanks, I'm now looking at a number of different lines of research. Before that though is the Proctor Centenary, then Ladders...and then...... 'Staying at the top of the singles charts', what could be a multi part look at the small mid-range single handers. With World Sailing talking about a lightweight ladies boat (if you read the WS blurbs I'm not sure if the lightweight refers to the lady or the boat - punctuation might help) this could be a good topic! Hey Rupert, there might be a chance for the Minisail yet!!!!

Cheers all, back soon

Dougal/Isle of Wight
Dougal H
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transient View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 5:37pm
I've said it elsewhere before: There is a decline in sport participation generally, in the UK, US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand....probably in other places (that don't produce figures) also. This trend is particularly pronounced with youth participation. A nice phrase I've seen,  "up or out" attitudes displayed by some sports coaches may be one of the reasons why. Kids are under all sorts of pressure to perform these days, they don't need it in their leisure time, it's supposed to be fun......this probably applies to lots of adult potential participants also.

Combine this with changing attitudes towards life in general and a lack of time. Post war babies were instilled with a sense of comeraderie and duty amongst other things......it's drying up. There's loads of other reasons of course but overall attitudes are changing

Newcomers want to be in and out, "done and dusted" so their sport fix is satisfied quickly. If GRF's observations are correct then maybe sailing can still offer something.......but....

......volunteers will be the biggest problem for clubs in the not to distant future. The volunteer problem is insoluble IMO. Clubs that can't afford professionals will disappear. The friendly club run by members for it's members has had a good run though. 

Edited by transient - 31 Jan 18 at 5:44pm
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 6:32pm
Whilst I guess that some consolidation of clubs will inevitably happen, my experience (and I have done a fair share of volunteering, when push comes to shove, new volunteers do eventually emerge from the woodwork.

I do think that clubs could consider streamlining their operations, particularly with regard to duties.  Cutting back on rescue duties may be a false economy, but you can get away with a one man band race officer if things are set up to facilitate this (especially if no PY timing required  LOL).
Happily living in the past
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 6:44pm
Yeah, my thoughts entirely. Granted the 'Elf and Safety" issues can be a problem but smaller clubs can combine rescue and RO if it's not too windy. It might result in racing being cancelled more often but one has to be pragmatic sometimes. Back when I was racing Raceboards at club level and numbers were low we often resorted to gate starts and raced without safety cover so everybody could get to race.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 8:00pm
re. Transient @ 5.37. 
Yes that is a view following recent trends.

I just wonder though? Considering the massive inertia and mostly accepted slowness of change within sailing, are our current aspirations in reality behind current and future trends?

As has been mentioned. Pushing youngsters along a racing and disciplined route may not by any means be for all. There are concerns being raised world wide about the cost of Olympic games. Worrying about adult racing numbers when by many accounts people and increasingly pressured and constrained at work by modern hard nosed practices.

Would a relaxed Club model be more in keeping with desires to slow down and smell the roses? Mindfulness is on lots of lips. Country walking is a growing area. People are increasingly concerned and consumption and pollution. 

We have it all to offer. Fresh air, silence, time to think, a pace governed by natural forces. Perhaps by being slow to keep up we might have skipped a cycle and have a chance to for once be ahead of the game.
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423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 18 at 8:37pm
I think it is down to every club in the country to look after their own house, each club knows exactly what issues it has, RYA should put together a package of suggestions, proven ideas.
Their have been quite a number of good suggestions on here.
My club only has one issue, the dreaded  'age demographic'  only cure, new members.
How to get them ?
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