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Endeavour 2017: Prediction thread

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Poll Question: Who will win the 2017 endeavour
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
8 [33.33%]
6 [25.00%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
3 [12.50%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
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    Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 9:23am
There's no strict entry criteria. It's an invitational event. I think Ben, either as 2016 Champion, or Nacra World Champion deserved his invite. Clearly RCYC want to make it as prestigious event as possible, and to do that they invite the best sailors. 


In the modern age it's almost impossible to tell the difference between amateur and professional. Ben certainly isn't the only full time sailor in the fleet. 

In the strict sense Ben isn't professional in that he get's paid to sail. He gets performance related grants from Sport England plus sponsorship perks. It's not like those sailing for BAR etc. But I guess the resentment is more the amount of time he spends sailing, i.e.. he's a full time sailor. 



Edited by mozzy - 16 Oct 17 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 9:31am
No objection to the holder having a place, though has that always been the case? 2 years ago he won the Merlins, but last year represented the Nacra, which doesn't have a Nationals, I think. In Ben Saxton's case, he does have a grounding in the UK dinghy sailing scene, which is why I assume he is interested in the Endeavour in the first place, however, there is a difference between being a sail maker and being a full time, state funded sailor.
If we want to do that, we should have an event where all the Olympic sailors get together and race the same boat. That would be very interesting.

In the end, though, it is a private invitational event, so RCYC can invite whoever they want, and I imagine for many, being on the start line with an Olympian is pretty good.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 10:22am
I think the type of boat played more of a role in weighting that competition to full time sailors, it's not the easiest of craft to sail as I found out to my dampness not long ago.
But as to the Pro/Amateur thing that has always been a tough one, even back in the day when the RYA made you channel your sponsorship through them in order to launder it to maintain an illusion of amateurism, the deck was stacked in favour of trustafarian kids who were afforded all the time and resources they wanted.
Life aint fair, but, sailing is the one thing I've enjoyed where money doesn't necessarily buy you the result, it can put you on the start line, give you good kit, but as we all know, that's no guarantee. There are very few sports I can think of where potentially the leading world exponent gets to line up against a rank beginner. Not that, that is what's going on at the Endeavour, but as a pinnacle to someones season of achievements I can't think of a better showcase. (Other than making them all do it in their own boats on handicap to further illustrate the iniquities we have to deal with ;-) )

I hope that guy and his crew are feeling duly proud, even though they jammed it due to their weight and the weather

Edited by iGRF - 16 Oct 17 at 10:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Rupert

there is a difference between being a sail maker and being a full time, state funded sailor.

Historically a "sailmaker" has been a full time privately funded sailor. Surely you remember the fake amateur days?

Obviously there are all sorts of limits in the format and the venue, but if its supposed to be Champion of Champions then having the current World Champion in a class that doesn't have a UK Nationals is perfectly reasonable.

It would be fun to have all the Olympic level sailors in, but its not really the sort of sailing most of them do.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 10:53am
Ben (and Toby) are clearly exceptional sailors and I think it is fantastic that even though sailing is presumably Ben's full time job he is happy to enter an amateur race. It gives the impression of someone who loves their job! To be at the top of the game in boats as diverse as the Nacra 17 and RS200 is remarkable. It does seem slightly odd that you don't have to use your regular crew though, or even one form within the class. I appreciate the argument that it allows them to enter a team of fighting weight, but it's a slap in the face for the nationals winning crew.

Actually what this shows is that the choice of boat, both for the Endeavour and for the Olympics, is a side show. Cream will rise.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 11:08am
I think of a lot of the Olympians/olympic programme sailors would do like to do it. But it's actually very difficult for Olympians to win nationals regatta's. They often don't have the amount of time to invest in sailing the 'national' class.

Most Olympic sailors who drop in for nationals get 1-2 days pre-event practice, or maybe at best one warm-up open before doing the event. With all the talent in the world they're going to struggle to beat top amateurs who have been sailing that class three days a week for years. In fact, I think it's quite brave when they do show up and put themselves out there. 

If you look closely at the two Olympians who have been successful at the endeavour both invested heavily in domestic classes. Ben Saxton had been sailing RS200's since 2008 before winning the nationals in 2012
Stuart Bithell won the Merlins whilst doing Olympic sailing, but again he had been crewing and then helming Merlins for years and years before.  The point is, neither just jumped in the boat and handed out a beating. 

Then, the endeavour often clashes with a world cup event or winter qualifiers which sailors need to do to secure funding. 

Anyway, I don't feel the odds are stacked in the favour of the 'pro-sailors' and having them at the event really adds to the prestige. 





Edited by mozzy - 16 Oct 17 at 11:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 17 at 1:17pm



Edited by mozzy - 18 Oct 17 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 8:34am
Considering the event, is this 3 min video and the report in Y&Y all they produced for the media?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 9:19am
I remember when the Olympic squad entered the Southport 24 hour. Stuart Blithel et al. They were incredible. I never saw a gp sailed like that and they beat one of the top gp clubs (Bolton?) By 2 laps?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 9:29am
'They' had two pre-event articles and y&y, one on runners and riders and one on the sponsorship by Allen brothers. But both only turned up in the preceding week... a bit late to build hype. 

I saw the runners and riders article shared a few times on facebook before the event; but by people who were going and by class association pages I follow. 

I didn't think the runners and riders article was particularly great, which is why I wrote the long first post to try and give a better summary of the contenders chances. 

During the event they had live updates on twitter with videos too. https://twitter.com/Endeavourcb This was actually pretty good; but i think facebook would have been a better platform. It has a broader reach and you could have run a 'facebook live' to stream the races. 

There was a day one report on y&y and full results report immediately after.

The video above is by a sponsor. Whilst sponsors may want to make more from their money, it should really be the event producing the media and getting it out there; that's what the sponsors are paying for. It seems like the sponsors had a sponsored sailor at the event who stepped up to do the video; fair play to the young lad. 

Really, the runners and riders articles need to start from a month or two out, and give much more depth to the teams experience and form, preferably with a video interview. More should be made of rivalry's within the fleet; top junior and youth class, top 'couple', families racing in different boats; similar classes etc. If this is the most prestigious trophy in dinghy sailing you need to produce more; build a back story, get people engaged with the sailors stories. 

I'm not sure where the responsibility lies. The event itself does okay. Probably similar or better than most class associations for their nationals. But the media need to step up a little too. After all they're the professionals. Why did y&y not have a reporter at the event? VR? Yes, the media doesn't 'own' the event; but they do benefit from hyping the sport and by that the top events.

It would be interesting to know from the website team how endeavour articles do in terms of hits? I'd be surprised if they were the most popular articles from autumn, despite many classes holding inland championships. If they are popular, do more!
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