Not every entrant is covered in that list though and I think there are some very good bets missed off. I can only put ten in the poll, but the full entry list is https://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/2017-entries/" rel="nofollow - here (thanks GybeFunny), so please add in your favourites in the thread below. 

https://www.windguru.cz/123686" rel="nofollow - Forecast

With the event being held in 200's it worth looking at the contenders history in that class. 

Saxton -Lewis, Palmer - Seabright and the Gilberts (x2) are all RS200 championship winning teams.  Roberts has won a nationals as a crew and done plenty of helming in them too. Birrell has won a inland's and done at least one nationals.  Wells and Cockerill's have done 200 nationals too. But... the 200 isn't a particularity technical class, so I wouldn't say it's a huge advantage. 

Nick Craig with 6 previous wins is really the 'legend' of this event. However, he's not won the  since it's switched to 200's; he's a big guy. 

Of the helms Gilbert, Saxton, Burge, Roberts (crew) and Birrell (crew) are all previous winners too. 

There's also some proper ringers as crews. Firstly; Toby Lewis. Most successful crew in endeavour history. He's won the event with four different helms. In the last ten years only three other crews have broken his run. Of those Roberts and Birrell, are both now helming so that only leaves Emma Clarke as a previous winner returning to the role. Amongst Toby's national victories he counts an RS200 championships, so certainly knows the boat. 

Emma Clarke, only other previous endeavour winning crew reprising that role and a 200 national champ to boot (2nd this year too). Amy Seabright and Jane Gilbert are both RS200 national champions too. Luke Patience is mentioned in the article, but my sources tell me he's been replaced by Rob Henderson. Rob came 4th in 2016 and 3rd at this years 200 nationals; so certainly a better 200 crewing pedigree than Luke. 

1st: Well, Saxton - Lewis. Previous 200 national champions and combined they are the most successful team in endeavours by far. They know the format and have the class; they're also defending champs. 

2nd: After that I would say Ben Palmer. If he can suss out the venue quickly I think he will push Saxton. He's not got a massive list of championships to his name (I think just toppers and maybe 420); but coming fresh of a nationals win in the class the event is being held in counts for a lot. He's also handy at the short close quarters racing you see on the crouch and as HISC sailor is well used to the tide.  

3rd: I'd put Gilbert on the third step of the podium. Double 200 champion I know, and plenty of experience in this event; but it's a long way from I14 sailing which has been his focus for the last couple of years. 

Dark horse: Nigel Wakefield representing the Firefly with Mary Henderson. He's done a bit of 200 sailing before, and came 2nd at the http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/198741/RS200-SEAS-Open-at-Burghfield" rel="nofollow - Burghfield open  and http://www.hisc.co.uk/media/68571/rs200-sprint-racing-071017.htm" rel="nofollow - Sandy Shell . Mary is a very nifty 200 crew. He's also borrowing my boat, so of course i'd like to see my boat win! 

https://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/2017-entries/

My money would be on Saxton but it should be an awesome one design fleet race whoever wins!! ;-p

I think they were pulled two years ago. Topper stopped the sponsorship. RS now sponsor but provide sails not boats.  

I reckon they went for 200s because:

a)RS were willing to pay is 

b) they are readily available (people loan the boats). 

c) Out of all the popular boat they could of chose, the 200 is probably the least technical

d)most have some experience of it.  

Obviously, when you get away from using a class that no-one races, then it will give an advantage; same when used 400s. 

Some helms have deferred representing their class to their crew. 

Christian Birrell is representing the 470 presumably because Johny can't attend. 

Alan Roberts is representing the Merlin as Nick is representing the D-One. 

Anna Carpenter is representing the Ladies 470 as her helm, Amy Seabright, is representing the 200. 

Steve Cockerill has chosen to represent the 2000 over the Aero, but then he is sailing with his wife who he won the 2000's with. 

Interestingly, Ben Saxton, is the only entrant not to have won a nationals!

Very few national champions turn down the chance to enter, often sailing average boats, or boats they're not suited to, just to pit themselves against the best in the country. 

Ask yourself, is the difference in average competitor skill for each class wider than the difference in skill for the top sailors for each class. Bare in mind the top sailors are often out layers and many dominate their own class, and it's not unknown for individuals to dominate the Endeavour. 

It's also the USP of the event that it gets everyone together in one class. 

The Xenon was perfect in that regard, however, you could say those who did the event before started to get a considerable advantage. And it's not like there were many laying around a new competitor could get their hands on to practice in to level the playing field (you did get a day practice on Friday). 

Because when I did it in one of those Xenon's not only was it like sailing around in a jelly mould that delivered next to no feed back, bits failed quite a bit. Crews actually busted poles just by gybing. Plus the smaller crews were defiantly disadvantaged.

I'd say the RS200 is about bang on for a fair competition. (Well as fair as you can be).

A definite disadvantage to proper size people. Andy Couch would struggle to fit in a 200 and he is light at the moment.

Define 'proper size'.  Those at either end of the spectrum are always going to lose out. 

Maybe they ask all the champions their weight and select a boat which suits that average? 

The event was held in Xenons and 400s before that and it's teh same people at the front now in 200s. 

The organisers set this up on the premise that getting the champions in to a mutually agreeable class is the best way of determining who is champion of champions. It may mean some people have to sail boats they're not experts in; but you know what, they all turn up because they know, that there is far more recognition in winning this, with equal equipment, than any handicap race under the sun.  

Originally posted by Rupert I think the Irish version runs as handicap. Glad ours does not. Still, this is a private venture, so if anyone has enough connections, inviting all the champions to a handicap event too is quite possible. I guess the Southampton boat show pursuit is currently the nearest to this.

Yes and doesn't have the qudos to get champions to attend.  Nor did the Battle of the Classes at the London Boat Show really.

There must be some of you guys who fancy someone else an outside bet? 

Who on the entry list dominated their nationals? 

Who's won championships in several classes?

Who does at lot of tidal / river sailing?

Who's good in the breeze ( https://www.windguru.cz/123686" rel="nofollow - forecast link )? 

Who's up and coming?

Full list below:

Better be outside your 65 to 72 kg weight guide then Graeme!! By the way, I am 95 kg, run half marathons in 1 hr 40 min and have a BMI that is similar to most serious athletes....so being over 75kg does not make you obese, only on the very crude scales that the NHS have used since the 1940s. 

At 95kg it would be hard to find a partner to sail a RS200 even if I was good enough to get invited (which I am not) - but that is why we need handicap racing Mozzy because not everyone who is fit and willing can fit into your view of a suitable class.

I'm pretty sure Nick Craig and Roger Gilbert are both close to 90kg though. Roger has won two 200 nationals and although Nick hasn't won since the boat moved to 200's he was in the Top3 both times.

Plus, I never said everyone should fit in to one class. This is a one event which obviously requires compromises from sailors at both end of the scales, and also some compromises in the type of boat they sail, so that they can compete on equal footing. The sailors seem very willing to make the compromise. 

The event was held in 400's and Xenons before, which meant as a 45kg oppy sailor you'd struggle to find a crew heavy enough.   

Of my favourites the Gilberts and Craig - Scott are probably the heaviest. 

However, Birrell - Henderson may be a good shout. Since winning the Endeavour as a crew Birrell has been 5th and 3rd as a helm. RS200 inland champion last year with straight bullets. Then his crew Rob Henderson one of the biggest top 200 crews and has good success at 200 nationals with lady helms coming 4th last year and 3rd this year. I Rob must be over 70 and maybe closer 80. All up I reckon Birrell and Henderson will be 150 kg. 

What's a N14?You could mean a Int14. Roger Gilbert has won in many fleets over the years so not to be under estimated.

Simon from the K1 wont be the lightest as he sails a Phantom and was in the top 10 this year.

As the speed downwind is critical I don't think the heavy teams will win.

My bet is last years winners.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com" rel="nofollow - /news/199003/Salcombe-Brewery-50th-Lark-Masters-Preview

Originally posted by iGRF Can I change my mind? The weather forecast has slackened, it'll be lightweights, it's only 10 -12 mph now.

No! 

They're super light though. They've won the Bloody Mary a few times in the 12 too.

No Blaze, D-Zero, Solo, Aero or OK either......

Solos are the most disappointing for me. Biggest single handed adult class I would have liked to see them there.  

GP14 is still very popular (3rd highest 2 man adult boat attendance wise) as well as historically being a dominant class at this event. I rate the winner too. 

Larks are a traditional top class, like the Ent so it's nice to see them there even if they don't quite have the turnouts nowadays.

I think with no boat provided there wasn't a limit this year, so you just had to borrow a 200. 

Hardly fair to expect your 'invited' sailors to pay the entry fee (which is fairly steep). When CA funds can't stretch without affecting other things the class wants to do (for a small, self funded) CA like the D-Zero is.

17.5 stone apparently. Leading after the first day in 2010. Didn't fair so well on the second when it picked up to 25 knots and they had to reef. 

They've not done the event since it's gone to 200s. 

There's a weird wind range where it flicks from paying to be heavier, to light, to heavy again through 10-16 knot as boats start to plane downwind. If it's wind against tide it is exaggerated and they could be looking very good. But, and it's a big but. These are the most '200' specific conditions and technique counts for a lot. 

Gilbert was a well known master of these conditions, despite being heavier.  

I'm not that sceptical. After talking to a few sail makers at the event they were all really positive about it. How many of the no shows are sail makers anyway? 

I think sailing a SMOD class makes it easier for a sail maker to attend, as it's clear to all they are only using the sails through force majeure.; and of course they can sl*g the sails off post event to their heart content. However, if it's held in a class which they could make sails for (but don't necessarily do), then using another makers sails would be seen as an endorsement. It would put a few in a tricky situation of knocking up their own sails at short notice without the development time they would like.  

Having an Endeavour winning helm making your sails is a pretty marketable point as well! 

I like the idea that all the competing helms are 'champions'. I'd rather see the slot passed to the crew if the helm is unavailable or representing another class. 

I'd rather it didn't pass to 2nd or 3rd place helms as it looses the 'champions of champions' feel.

Obviously it's RCYC's event so they can invite whoever they choose! 

I wonder if RS have put a restriction on how many sails they will provide? I am under the impression if you have won a nationals, and can get a 200, you can go.  

Actually, I think it is a huge disadvantage. Really, the only winners from singlehanded classes have been Nick Craig, Jim Hunt and Geoff Carveth who, not coincidentally in my opinion, also had plenty of experience in two-person classes too.

https://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/past-winners" rel="nofollow - https://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/past-winners

I take Jim's point about the venue - it's not the most inspiring - muddy, tidal river sailing. Also the format which may require up to 8 hours on the water, on the Saturday at least with 5 back-to-back races. Having said that, RCYC put in a huge amount of effort to put the event on, including free accommodation for all competitors so should be commended for that.

Isnt the Southampton boat show battle of the classes meant to be the top 2 of each class racing.

On PY exactly what people have been asking for on hear, only it doesn't seem to get the support from the associations to provide the Champs?

I like the idea of it tacked onto the show but the show part of it kind of kills it for me too.

guess there are all sorts of reasons not to attend, what we should be asking of any event like this is what are the reasons to participate?  class prestige? bragging rights? the choccies?.....

2nd Craig - Scott (D-One)

3rd Gilberts (I14)

4th Goringe - Clarke (400)

5th Birrell - Henderson (470)

6th Palmer - Seabright (200)

Probably a little unfair to ignore his crew; Toby Lewis, the most successful sailor in the history of the event.

Ben is an outstanding helm, but the gulf between him and rest of the fleet is just as much Toby's making as it is Ben's.

https://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/1934-americas-cup/" rel="nofollow - If you wanted to make a link the amateurism, then event is named after the Endeavour model donated as a trophy. The endeavour was crewed by amateur sailors after it's professional crew revolted.  I can't see anywhere that when they set up the event they wanted it to be strictly amateur though. 

In the modern age it's almost impossible to tell the difference between amateur and professional. Ben certainly isn't the only full time sailor in the fleet. 

In the strict sense Ben isn't professional in that he get's paid to sail. He gets performance related grants from Sport England plus sponsorship perks. It's not like those sailing for BAR etc. But I guess the resentment is more the amount of time he spends sailing, i.e.. he's a full time sailor. 

Most Olympic sailors who drop in for nationals get 1-2 days pre-event practice, or maybe at best one warm-up open before doing the event. With all the talent in the world they're going to struggle to beat top amateurs who have been sailing that class three days a week for years. In fact, I think it's quite brave when they do show up and put themselves out there. 

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  https://www.facebook.com/allensailboathardware/videos/10155186794054426/" rel="nofollow - Or just a link to facebook video

I saw the runners and riders article shared a few times on facebook before the event; but by people who were going and by class association pages I follow. 

I didn't think the runners and riders article was particularly great, which is why I wrote the long first post to try and give a better summary of the contenders chances. 

And not too expensive either

The event  has prestige; what it lacks is visibility. 

Actually the AC is one of World Sailing's 'special events'.  Perhaps the RYA could have a list of similarly supported national events.
 

Originally posted by iGRF The idea we were bandying about a while back a sort of Open formula one series of similarly banded boats sailed on handicap over a National series of events throughout the year competed for in boats like the Aero Blaze, D Zero, Finn, Laser, Solution, Solo, Supernova, OK, Phantom etc.

The difficult thing is getting an incentive to race. Most those classes people have good competition within. How you entice the top sailors from each to turn up to an event where they may get unfairly beaten on handicap?

How?

The Sail Juice obviously has some great past winners and great attendances. But would it draw the top sailors away from class opens and championships if held during the summer?