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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nationals Attendances
    Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 8:43pm
'Price of Fish and Chips'
Dougal, do you not think this light hearted discussion is the fun that is lacking in sailing ?
This banter is what I enjoy when racing, abusing other helms/crews, just keep it light, but make sure you beat them.


Edited by 423zero - 16 Aug 17 at 8:46pm
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iiiiticki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by Gordon 1430

The class that thinks its at Warsash SC when its at Weston
SC.

Small distance large difference.


I am afraid that was not my mistake I am sure that the Y&Y computers have sailing biased spellchecker!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 6:40pm
Davidyacht: I am well aware of the failings, on both sides, that took place during the event you refer to, but think it a bit sad that PSC are being pilloried unfairly. As I said, there were failings on both sides but this is hardly the forum for airing just one side of the grievances. I was at Hayling Island recently and would rather be here than there (and that is from some who lives on the IOW).I'm at PSC now and have seen them working hard across the week to make the Merlin Champs a success. I'm then staying on here to cover the IC worlds so will be able to give an better informed and reasoned view in 10 days time.
But is it really just a case that it is being held at PSC? I don't think so and will do a short article looking back at the week here. Instead, if there is one factor that has hit the success of this week it has to be the weather - it has been grotty since day one. The Wind Guru/XC weather effect that we often talk about is in plain view here.
However, all this is just part of a bigger picture. Defining what that bigger picture is, wow, that is a task and a half and I've little doubt that the RYA will continue to fund Consultant activity as they look at rebuilding the grassroots of the sport - if that is what they might want to do. And that is an even bigger question...do they even want to do it!
D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Davidyacht: I am well aware of the failings, on both sides, that took place during the event you refer to, but think it a bit sad that PSC are being pilloried unfairly. As I said, there were failings on both sides but this is hardly the forum for airing just one side of the grievances. I was at Hayling Island recently and would rather be here than there (and that is from some who lives on the IOW).I'm at PSC now and have seen them working hard across the week to make the Merlin Champs a success. I'm then staying on here to cover the IC worlds so will be able to give an better informed and reasoned view in 10 days time.
But is it really just a case that it is being held at PSC? I don't think so and will do a short article looking back at the week here. Instead, if there is one factor that has hit the success of this week it has to be the weather - it has been grotty since day one. The Wind Guru/XC weather effect that we often talk about is in plain view here.
However, all this is just part of a bigger picture. Defining what that bigger picture is, wow, that is a task and a half and I've little doubt that the RYA will continue to fund Consultant activity as they look at rebuilding the grassroots of the sport - if that is what they might want to do. And that is an even bigger question...do they even want to do it!
D
Ventnor/IOW

I'm really interested in your assertion that Windguru/XC Weather effect has been in evidence at a week long nationals.  Surely a championship requires planning/prep that doesn't get turned off for the weather?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:22pm
Sargesail. It isn't the only factor but it certainly seems to be one of them - that is judging from some of the comments I've had over the last three weeks. It isn't just the Wind Guru thing but some six weeks ago we were warned of an extended period of unsettled weather with rain and strong winds. The result of this 'climate change' (I'm using the words carefully for I do not know if it is or if this is just a statistical blip) is that a number of lower mid fleet sailors that I have spoken to are questioning the value to them of attending. Is this a detail in the bigger picture that yet has to be understood? That the hot shots will still be there at the front of the fleet, but the bigger numbers further down are starting to question what they are attending for?  If so, it is certainly a new dynamic that will change the nature of the annual gatherings. I'm seeing something but right now, I'm not sure quite what it is. Demographics are playing a part too.....in the end, the answer might well be the classic 'all of the above'!

D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:47pm
I know that championships are about who is the best in class, but if classes only concentrate on the top and forget the majority, i.e the 75-90% who have no chance of winning, then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. They are the ones that keep the class going and they must be made welcome, wanted and it be worthwhile them turning up.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 3:41am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

I know that championships are about who is the best in class, but if classes only concentrate on the top and forget the majority, i.e the 75-90% who have no chance of winning, then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. They are the ones that keep the class going and they must be made welcome, wanted and it be worthwhile them turning up.

+1

Though whether championships (or any competitive sports event) are purely about finding out who is best is debatable - people attend championships with many different motivations/goals. When classes (or rather the front-of-fleet sailors that make up the bulk of committees) forget that and espouse 'hard cheese' attitudes the likely result is a tailing off of attendance.

Also the general decline in participation across the sport perhaps means the natural churn in the mid/back fleet was masked when the sport was more popular, with a continual stream of new people, but now appears as significant peaks and troughs with fewer new people coming in.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 8:07am
Originally posted by Dougaldog

It isn't just the Wind Guru thing but some six weeks ago we were warned of an extended period of unsettled weather with rain and strong winds. 


I must be the exact opposite of your demographic then as I'm a mid fleet sailor at best who would be far more likely to turn up to a nationals/open meeting if we could be guaranteed strong winds for the entire event. If I could guarantee wind over the duration of an open even, let alone a nationals I'd probably do more but my performance is so wind strength dependant it's not funny. Which probably means I sail completely the wrong boat for me in everyone elses eyes but in terms of smiles per sail I'm not changing, even if it means I don't bother travelling that much anymore..... Two class events I fancied this year, the nationals and a big anniversary event. Ones in Scotland so too far for me even though there will be others travelling further and the other unfortunately that clashes with a previous commitment so can't make that either.

p.s. I don't think weather really comes in to the decision to attend a nationals. The majority will still have accomodation/time off work etc etc booked further in advance than any decent weather forecasting can cope with and cancelling because windguru says its not ideal would cost far too much for most. How do families cope who all sail in different fleets? Perhaps they don't do any nationals as they can do them all and doing one would be favouritist. Perhaps they go to a club regatta week somewhere as they all get to sail at the same time.


Edited by chrisg - 18 Aug 17 at 8:09am
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Gordon 1430 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 8:33am
Hi Dougal
Do you think its the old style 1 week but now multi race  championship that is the problem?  Both the Ents and the Merlins have gone with to this and when its not a great Holiday venue what's the attraction for families.
Where as the Merlin Salcombe week style event is based on only racing once a day so the family can do other things for a least part of the day.
So for fleets is the solution to have either a week but only sail max two races a day leaving half the day free for other activities ( Picking sensible holiday venues) or long weekends and pack 3 or 4 races per day, not worrying about wives and children.
As is said n the media were now a time poor society.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Sargesail. It isn't the only factor but it certainly seems to be one of them - that is judging from some of the comments I've had over the last three weeks. It isn't just the Wind Guru thing but some six weeks ago we were warned of an extended period of unsettled weather with rain and strong winds. The result of this 'climate change' (I'm using the words carefully for I do not know if it is or if this is just a statistical blip) is that a number of lower mid fleet sailors that I have spoken to are questioning the value to them of attending. Is this a detail in the bigger picture that yet has to be understood? That the hot shots will still be there at the front of the fleet, but the bigger numbers further down are starting to question what they are attending for?  If so, it is certainly a new dynamic that will change the nature of the annual gatherings. I'm seeing something but right now, I'm not sure quite what it is. Demographics are playing a part too.....in the end, the answer might well be the classic 'all of the above'!

D

Wow.  I'm amazed that anybody would make a decision based on a forecast at that long a range.

To me that sounds like an excuse...and the real reason is found in other factors.  But you're the one that spoke with them.

I've seen some proper work on climate change in my job.  This ain't it.  Not yet.

What we really need to do is get everyone on Predictwind rather than XC or Windguru.  When you see what the different (and better) models are suggesting it's much easier to make an informed decision.

Or just look at some isobars as well as XC etc.  Often they tell the truth where the model makes up some rubbish.
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