Nationals Attendances
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12822
Printed Date: 04 Jul 25 at 8:39pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Nationals Attendances
Posted By: rich96
Subject: Nationals Attendances
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 8:21am
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Only 22 Larks and 38 Merlins at their respective nationals
These are open meeting numbers despite each class being at great venues Even the Scorpions were only in the 40s Why are these numbers so low ? |
Replies:
Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:25am
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Only 28 at the Enterprises at Abersoch. ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:32am
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As the general age of sailors increases I can see this trend increasing, in my youth I didnt mind going away for a week and spending 6 hours a day on the water. Now I have young kids I cant do that. Personally I skipped my nationals this year in favour of a local sailing clubs sailing week where you just sail for a few hours a day. I wonder if the numbers attending things like Fed Week, Bass week, etc have increased as nationals attendances have dropped? |
Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:46am
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Single handers seem to be able to cope better, ignoring the laser which is an odd ball. Solo 90 boats, Supernova 90boats Phantoms 50 plus with a few weeks to go
(a definite turn round from the last few years). ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:49am
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Merlins get 120 at Salcombe week but Champs usually considerably less. Would have expected 50ish but perhaps the distance to Pwelli is a factor as most active Merlins are Midlands or south coast based. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:58am
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I wonder how much demographics is a factor....for example have the Ent numbers held up because there were lots of 'always been an Ent sailor' sailors who are now feeling the effects of aging? Perhaps the same with Larks (the list of competitors looks like folk who have always sailed Larks together). We only had 23 for the 2000s, but the trip to Scotland and a number of Championship clashes was a factor. Just glad that we have the bug as a family. Kids loved a (shared) week of Championship racing.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 11:06am
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Lasers, Ents, Merlins all poor turnouts in Wales. Common denominator? |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 11:29am
I'm sure someone can find a way to blame Brexit, or Donald Trump.
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Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 12:13pm
Don't we just normally just blame trolls on the forum?   Seriously though I think it's a combination of all the above posts, time, demographics and personal relationships. In my case the British moth nationals run from Wednesday to Saturday, but most people arrive on Tuesday because that means you get more drinking in. Elaine and I tend to look at it as a holiday with added drinking and sailing, but this only works because we can both get the holiday and we both have the same interest. ( in the past I have still gone to the nationals with elaine even when I haven't taken a boat ! ) But in this modern age, time is tighter and couples have separate interests ( not like in the past when wife's and families were dragged along anyway  )I have no idea what the answer is, attendances seem to be down across the board and it doesn't seem to matter if a two day event or a week. For the record I think we had 27 for our nationals this year, which was slightly above the average attendance in recent years. Sorry for the rambling post, out of practice posting on here
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Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 7:19pm
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Looking good in terms of pre-entries are 200s with 102 entrues (Tenby) and 400s with 70 entries (Mounts Bay). Both are pouplar venues with the RSs. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 8:11pm
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I think it's an age demographic thing, the classes that attract younger types probably hold up better than the one's that are generally supported by the 'been there, got the T shirt' generation.
Let's face it, it's a lot of hassle, getting the mast down, finding the road covers, checking the wheel bearings, just getting a number plate for your trailer board involves hoops to jump through these days if you've recently switched tow vehicles. Then there's the journey, road trip it aint, these days of shuffling from one elongated car park to the next, risking E.European side swipes from TIRs, to unreasonable tolls on roads, then you get there, rig the damn thing with only the return to look forward to. I've got the Solution nationals coming up, I'd love to be there, but can I be asked to go through all that? Nope ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:19pm
| Just spent 2 weeks in Aberdovey, no one there, hardly any traffic going or coming back, last year traffic on M54/A5 horrendous, perhaps it's not just sailing. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:29pm
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I suspect Pwhelli is a factor, an architects fantasy, form over function, in the middle of an industrial estate ... why anyone would choose this as a North Wales venue over Abersoch with its lovely clubhouse overlooking the bay is hard to figure out. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Gfinch
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:49pm
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Merlin nationals also clashing with Salcombe YC Regatta right now - 11 Merlins sailing there and I'd assume some would do both events if they didn't clash. Just back from North West Norfolk Week, had a fantastic time. Numbers for that were down, but it works very well as a holiday and not just a sailing event. Next week is the N12 Nationals at Weymouth, expecting over 30 boats in line with recent numbers but slightly more than other classes have had this year - probably down to the venue though. ------------- 3513, 3551 - National 12 136069 - Laser 32541 - Mirror 4501 - Laser 4000 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 9:55pm
| I find Pwhelli a bit dreary even on a summers day, mind their is a Wetherspoons now, can get cheap beer and burgers. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 10:02pm
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I do think the idea of the family holiday being the Nationals is something fewer people now consider. But surely the youngsters don't have this problem? Maybe we should look at the ages of those taking part in the adult classes, and see if the big fleets have a higher % of younger sailors? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 10:29pm
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Has anyone else noticed how Morrissey lyrics so wonderfully capture the concept of a dinghy national championship as a family holiday for the non-sailing element.... This is the coastal town Everyday is like Sunday Hide on the promenade Everyday is like Sunday [TUBE]d0LeL9BUPtA[/TUBE] |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 10:51pm
Having just done home to Weymouth to North Berwick to home, and with another trip to Scotland for a Nationals to come I'd say, 'No it's not a lot of hassle'. Worth every moment.
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Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 11:13pm
I see your point, but more disturbing to me is the similarity of Morrissey's words to those of John Betjeman in sentiment and structure.
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Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 5:23am
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I'm trying to imagine Betjeman teamed up with Johnny Marr....... ------------- sailcraftblog.wordpress.com The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 6:31am
The similarity is obvious and certainly intentional. Why it is "disturbing"? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 8:04am
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Never seen that video before.
Always liked that song, though generally find him too depressing. Reminds me of Aberystwyth in winter. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 9:06am
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Thoughts of Betjemen at least bring about visions of Rock and blasting down that river towards the Doom Bar, swiftly followed by several of the eponymous local brews. This, I can at least see having potential for family holidays combined with sailing (and the fact the tide makes 8 hours back to back a bit unlikely also assists.) Given the locality, I would strongly advise against the "Rick Stein" social night, but class associations are democracies and I guess it would be nice to show the northern travellers a proper restaurant. Morrissey reminds me more of Weston Super Mare, or one of those Kent seaside resorts (not the posh one where the Mustos sail- I think it's called Dulwich Sur La Mer - formerly, Whitstable), one of those shabby ones with nothing but the odd Merlin Rocket and knackered Contender for local racing.
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 9:11am
or Calshot in Summer
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 9:27am
Youfull exuberance, remember it well. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 9:31am
Whitstabule Posh?
No Lords and Ladies in Whitstable, they all live on the South Coast, counted five on my paper round one time. We've got a couple on our previous Commodores shield and a Sir John something or other. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 11:56am
| Anywhere charging ten quid for fish and chips is posh... that doesn't even get you a pickled egg on the side |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 12:35pm
You obviously know Morrissey better than I. Just silly me and my personal tastes that's all. |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 1:01pm
Indeed. Creeping over a fiver now most places probably owing to overfishing of relevant species. Tenner is the preserve of rampant brand profiteering by wet depressive tv chefs who have perniciously taken over certain sw former fishing villages. To paraphrase Peter Mandleson, Labour Party member of parliament at the time, on entering an establishment selling said working man's food in around 1997: "What is the green stuff there? Guacamole?" |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 1:31pm
I do hope he was with John Prescott at the time.... you know, the guy who would have asked for gravy with those triple-fried in virgin goose fat golden beauties; just before shoving his biro down his throat in the honeymoon suite of The Metropole Hotel.
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Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 1:33pm
it is extrmely disputed if he ever said that , vs it being made up or having been said by an aide who was anglo if not full USAmerican |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 2:01pm
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Good story, though, and if anyone should have stuff made up about him, it is Mandleson, just to redress the balance of the spin. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 5:21pm
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Nice one Rupert..... good call. And just to show willing re:- Nationals Attendance... 37 at the Osprey Nationals in Poole.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 5:58pm
| Who doesn't like Fish and chips when you are away from the family for a sailing event ? |
Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 6:19pm
| It seems I am not allowed to mention the class in order to protect myself from World wide assault but fish and chips only a fiver at Weston over the weekend with free roll and a delicious gherkin. Not bad for a town that far south. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 6:24pm
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Having a byte to eat in Weston, then? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 7:20pm
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iiiiticki, Serious question, I have never seen the sea at Weston, where is the sea ? I should add I have only seen bit by pier and I am assuming you mean Weston Super Mare ?
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 8:29pm
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The one on the Solent, I think! Less mud. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 8:30pm
| Half portions for half people hey tick? |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 8:47pm
Personally I prefer them with the family at a sailing event.
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Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 15 Aug 17 at 11:15pm
Fat people watch their weight thin people have no cares. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 9:17am
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Er we do, in fact it could be said we're thin because we care..
Fish n chips here Tuesday night after windsurf racing ritual, small cod, plaice and medium chips 9 quid from the local chippy, or we could go down the reconstituted end of town and pay 19 quid for baked mackerel, battered squid et pois au mush. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 9:48am
| Thinking about it.....most people in the 'class whose name I dare not speak' are either teenagers, who eat crap with gay abandon, or congenitally thin adults with stable bmi and healthy appetites. Nine quid!!! you could buy a trawler for that up here! |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 10:03am
I'm fairly sure it's the other way around
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 12:17pm
So, this class the love of which dare not speak it's name.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 1:01pm
| Do you have to wear a Mac' and flat cap with sunglasses. |
Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 1:48pm
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The class that thinks its at Warsash SC when its at Weston
SC.
Small distance large difference. ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 2:56pm
| I think Nationals aren't probably what they used to be, numbers fluctuate year on year and it seems in some cases it's the venue people go for rather than the event. The Scorpions have been mentioned is an interesting one as being at Castle Cove, a bit Scorpion Club you would have expected a much better turn out, or maybe it has been the success since a very low turnout at Teignmouth (36) three or so years ago. They had nearly 60 at Lyme Regis and 50 something at Looe in the two years since. Not bad for a relatively small class. Really surprised with the Enterprises this year. 28 seems very low and I am not convinced it was just because of the venue as the class seems quite strong in the North. |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 6:50pm
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I've just arrived up at Pwllheli and have been at the club today looking at the Merlin Nationals. Thinking that there might be a story here for me I was keen to find out the reasons for being there and why they thought others had stayed away. It is a complex topic, yet one that is very important to the health of our sport; maybe far too important to trivialize with a discourse on the price of fish and chips. This is now the 5th Championship that I have been at in the last 3 weeks (3 of those I've been RO for) and the one theme that comes up time and time again is 'value for money'. That isn't just financial value but that far more intangible "was it worth it" question. A good example of this was the Hornets around the corner at Colwyn Bay. Some questionable organisation and horribly sh*te weather left one stalwart in the class wondering why he had bothered. Then the final day gave perfect Hornet sailing and on speaking to him again, his attitude had changed, "This" he enthused "is what it is all about". I really think our perception of the weather is a key factor. Back to the Merlins - they have had a run of championships with less than summery weather and I got a strong feeling that this was more of the same. I think the comments about Plas Heli - the sailing centre at Pwllheli were unhelpful - looking at it with a quizzical eye, it scores all round against both Weymouth and Hayling Island. Okay, it isn't South Coast but maybe that might be a stronger reason to come here than some of the over priced and over hyped so called 'popular venues'. Yet the other side of the argument is that the south coast fleshspots do have that added attraction. One of our most popular single handed classes can attract 130+ boats, yet a superbly organised event the following year, at a top club on the east coast, got jus over half that number. Maybe the bigger question is if the decline in Nationals attendance is a symptom or a cause of the wider malaise that is impacting on dinghy racing. Cue the chorus of "we've never had it so good" but as one who spends his days looking at the sport, I've never seen it so bad! Dougal/Ventnor/Isle of Wight
------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 7:07pm
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Well Dougal, I have been steeped in attending Merlin, N12, I14 and more recently Solo championshipsat various. My take is that the venue does need to be attractive, the ganisation needs to be good and more importantly the venue needs to welcome the sailors, something that has tarnished by view of Plas Helli, and ideally there needs to be a home fleet ... and finally potential for sea breezes must be high on the priorities ... if you can tick all of these boxes then I suspect that you will get a good turnout, if you can't then the reasons for going against hard earned time may not stack up. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 8:43pm
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'Price of Fish and Chips' Dougal, do you not think this light hearted discussion is the fun that is lacking in sailing ? This banter is what I enjoy when racing, abusing other helms/crews, just keep it light, but make sure you beat them.
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Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 10:38pm
I am afraid that was not my mistake I am sure that the Y&Y computers have sailing biased spellchecker! |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 6:40pm
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Davidyacht: I am well aware of the failings, on both sides, that took place during the event you refer to, but think it a bit sad that PSC are being pilloried unfairly. As I said, there were failings on both sides but this is hardly the forum for airing just one side of the grievances. I was at Hayling Island recently and would rather be here than there (and that is from some who lives on the IOW).I'm at PSC now and have seen them working hard across the week to make the Merlin Champs a success. I'm then staying on here to cover the IC worlds so will be able to give an better informed and reasoned view
in 10 days time. But is it really just a case that it is being held at PSC? I don't think so and will do a short article looking back at the week here. Instead, if there is one factor that has hit the success of this week it has to be the weather - it has been grotty since day one.
The Wind Guru/XC weather effect that we often talk about is in plain view here. However, all this is just part of a bigger picture. Defining what that bigger picture is, wow, that is a task and a half and I've little doubt that the RYA will continue to fund Consultant activity as they look at rebuilding the grassroots of the sport - if that is what they might want to do. And that is an even bigger question...do they even want to do it! D Ventnor/IOW ------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:03pm
I'm really interested in your assertion that Windguru/XC Weather effect has been in evidence at a week long nationals. Surely a championship requires planning/prep that doesn't get turned off for the weather?
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Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:22pm
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Sargesail. It isn't the only factor but it certainly seems to be one of them - that is judging from some of the comments I've had over the last three weeks. It isn't just the Wind Guru thing but some six weeks ago we were warned of an extended period of unsettled weather with rain and strong winds. The result of this 'climate change' (I'm using the words carefully for I do not know if it is or if this is just a statistical blip) is that a number of lower mid fleet sailors that I have spoken to are questioning the value to them of attending.
Is this a detail in the bigger picture that yet has to be understood? That the hot shots will still be there at the front of the fleet, but the bigger numbers further down are starting to question what they are attending for? If so, it is certainly a new dynamic that will change the nature of the annual gatherings. I'm seeing something but right now, I'm not sure quite what it is. Demographics are playing a part too.....in the end, the answer might well be the classic 'all of the above'! D ------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:47pm
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I know that championships are about who is the best in class, but if classes only concentrate on the top and forget the majority, i.e the 75-90% who have no chance of winning, then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. They are the ones that keep the class going and they must be made welcome, wanted and it be worthwhile them turning up. ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 3:41am
+1 Though whether championships (or any competitive sports event) are purely about finding out who is best is debatable - people attend championships with many different motivations/goals. When classes (or rather the front-of-fleet sailors that make up the bulk of committees) forget that and espouse 'hard cheese' attitudes the likely result is a tailing off of attendance. Also the general decline in participation across the sport perhaps means the natural churn in the mid/back fleet was masked when the sport was more popular, with a continual stream of new people, but now appears as significant peaks and troughs with fewer new people coming in.
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Posted By: chrisg
Date Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 8:07am
I must be the exact opposite of your demographic then as I'm a mid fleet sailor at best who would be far more likely to turn up to a nationals/open meeting if we could be guaranteed strong winds for the entire event. If I could guarantee wind over the duration of an open even, let alone a nationals I'd probably do more but my performance is so wind strength dependant it's not funny. Which probably means I sail completely the wrong boat for me in everyone elses eyes but in terms of smiles per sail I'm not changing, even if it means I don't bother travelling that much anymore..... Two class events I fancied this year, the nationals and a big anniversary event. Ones in Scotland so too far for me even though there will be others travelling further and the other unfortunately that clashes with a previous commitment so can't make that either. p.s. I don't think weather really comes in to the decision to attend a nationals. The majority will still have accomodation/time off work etc etc booked further in advance than any decent weather forecasting can cope with and cancelling because windguru says its not ideal would cost far too much for most. How do families cope who all sail in different fleets? Perhaps they don't do any nationals as they can do them all and doing one would be favouritist. Perhaps they go to a club regatta week somewhere as they all get to sail at the same time.
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Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 8:33am
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Hi Dougal Do you think its the old style 1 week but now multi race championship that is the problem? Both the Ents and the Merlins have gone with to this and when its not a great Holiday venue what's the attraction for families. Where as the Merlin Salcombe week style event is based on only racing once a day so the family can do other things for a least part of the day. So for fleets is the solution to have either a week but only sail max two races a day leaving half the day free for other activities ( Picking sensible holiday venues) or long weekends and pack 3 or 4 races per day, not worrying about wives and children. As is said n the media were now a time poor society. ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 8:51am
Wow. I'm amazed that anybody would make a decision based on a forecast at that long a range. To me that sounds like an excuse...and the real reason is found in other factors. But you're the one that spoke with them. I've seen some proper work on climate change in my job. This ain't it. Not yet. What we really need to do is get everyone on Predictwind rather than XC or Windguru. When you see what the different (and better) models are suggesting it's much easier to make an informed decision. Or just look at some isobars as well as XC etc. Often they tell the truth where the model makes up some rubbish.
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 9:45am
Dougal, I accept that I may be harsh on Plas Heli based on my own experience, which may (hopefully) have been a one off, my experiences, of which I don't think I am alone, highlight that a bit of effort is required from the hosts if they want to grow as a venue, I was warned by the Opi parents before I went, and many Solo sailors gave feedback to the Merlins. The key point made elsewhere is that a venue needs to stack up both on and off the water, otherwise it simply is not a holiday, which is important for 80% of the fleet ... which is why I cannot understand why Abersoch has been usurped by Plas Heli by several classes. Continuity is another important aspect, so if you have good venues on a cycle then this also encourages better turnouts. I can see Plas Heli being a better Worlds venue than a Nationals venue, when that big circular shed could be great for bimbling with your IC in the rain, and when a good view from the bar is less important ... I just hope that they sweep the sand off the slipway ... they are heavy old boats (canoes). ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Aug 17 at 10:05am
| Single carriage roads most of the way don't help, get some knob driving at 40mph, like driving to St Ives before the A30. |
Posted By: Drylander
Date Posted: 20 Aug 17 at 8:17pm
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I'm confused by many of the comments made on this post, having sailed Pwllheli and Abersoch on many occasions I would choose Pwllheli every time as being friendly and always top class race management along with places to stay on site ( camping motorhome etc ) Abersoch, not the most friendly, no where to stop on site and the prices ! well proper get rich quick brigade, and we won't mention the race management. Now Salcombe, I love Salcombe but same again, no where to camp within walking distance and drive in parking is crazy and expensive as is the town generally, so I guess it's down to personal choice, and why anyone would want to go to Hayling Island I don't know that must be the most dismal place on the uk coast. |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 20 Aug 17 at 8:43pm
.........and sandy too. I hate sand.
 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 20 Aug 17 at 8:47pm
Tenby 
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Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 12:32pm
What's wrong with Hayling? I've always found the club very welcoming, the sailing area is great and I have no issue with sand! |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 1:33pm
The sand inevitably ends up on the ropes and in your boat, prematurely knackering cleats and fittings. Grit everywhere yuck. For the purposes of this discussion I think the experience of visiting sailors can be divided into 2 catagories: The sailing and the ambience. I know that a lot of the hotshots don't give a toss about ambience but for those of us with more mainstream sensibilities it does matter. There's more to life than just functionality, particularly if you've taken a precious week off work to attend a nationals with your family.
The sailing at Hayling is undoubtedly excellent for a visitor. Ambience for a visitor? Nah. Not in my experience as a non racing visitor on many occasions....a lot better than Weymouth though. |
Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 1:51pm
Pwwllheli, really? Totally uninspiring town (I'm being kind here) and hardly any B&Bs. Abersoch - lovely town with plenty of places to stay. I would seriously consider not doing a Nationals if it was at Pwllheli, and I never miss a Nationals. ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 3:31pm
+1 on Pwlhelli I'm afraid, served too much time there with Topper squads, only redeeming feature is the railway cafe. And it's sandy, though not that dreadful stuff that blows everywhere at Hayling. La Rochelle
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Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 3:54pm
The only redeeming feature is the road out! ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 7:31pm
I enjoyed David Henshall's Yachts & Yachting report on day 1 of the IC Worlds at Pwllheli, but sadly there was no link to the results. I then went onto the Plas Heli website and dug around (a lot!) but only managed to find a faint mention of the event deep at the bottom of the events page with that promising statement "More information soon", halfway through the event. On the same page there's a comprehensive set of results for the 2017 Pwllheli Triathlon though. National Sailing Academy? Pathetic 
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Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 7:38pm
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Redeeming features of Pwllheli as a holiday venue i accept are few but the sailing clubs and their attitude towards their visitors are simply poles apart. Pwllheli SC simply cannot do enough for you, make you feel welcome and are pleasant and polite to talk to. The bar stays open as long as you want it to within reason. The food is excellent and keenly priced. OK, the building may have been designed by a drunk architect who had never felt the need to use a toilet, but at least they give the impression that they want you there. SCYC could learn a number of lessons from the facility up the road. If you get blown/calmed off at Pwllheli you are only a short drive away from Abersoch, Nefyn and the other more pleasant holiday surroundings on the peninsular. I found accommodation in a B&B with no issues whatsoever for open meetings and a house for a champs week was equally easy to find, if maybe a little on the pricey side - both within easy walking distance. Its not a place i'd go to on holiday, but id definitely go sailing there again.
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Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 21 Aug 17 at 7:56pm
Aren't all the sailing events run by Plas Heli these days? I have to confess that I'm a bit anti Pwllheli, though many years ago they did a fantastic job. I did a Nationals there 3 years ago and the (very) amateur race team scored me in the wrong fleet, simply because they couldn't differentiate between a Standard and a Radial. Additionally they scored the fleets separately, not in order of boats finishing, so they had no record of my finishing position in my fleet. To add insult to injury they then went around the bar asking fellow competitors where I would normally have finished, in order that they could allocate me a finishing position. If we'd known where we were all going to finish why would we have bothered travelling all the way to Pwllheli? Agree with Steve411 on accommodation, it's dire. Instead of building that eyesore next to PSC why didn't they just build a massive accommodation block and generate some decent revenue from the large sailing championships which they host? PSC always seemed to manage the numbers, especially with a marquee tagged on the end of the clubhouse. |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 26 Aug 17 at 11:55pm
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Just back from the 400 nationals at Mounts Bay. Seventy
three boats on the start line. Brilliant race organisation in a difficult week
for the RO. Great photography. Dolphins at the windward mark. Plenty of hoses
to rinse boats, toes, and anything else with sand in it. Results up by approx. 7pm
every day and a great report writer posting daily bulletins to Y&Y. St
Michaels Mount reception opened up only to the championship fleet. Fantastic
accommodation barely a minute’s walk from the club. Rounded off by a great
(onesies) party. The right guys won. Special mentions to Joanne Boutle and
Heather Chipperfield of the Association who ran the show brilliantly. Slight
downside is I sailed like a dick! |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 2:47pm
| Only a handful of 14s at Rock - open meeting numbers |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 3:34pm
23. Quite a handful. |
Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 3:59pm
| That is good numbers for 14's. An interesting place to sail too. Amazingly beautiful and the sailing looks good too! |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 4:00pm
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And 100 200's at Tenby ... maybe we can draw that there is a changing of the guard with the classes that are attracted to National Championships; both the RS200s and RS400s were at really good venues, and the classes appear to have pushed the party vibe quite hard. This is also the Salcombe Merlin Week vibe. Maybe some sailors have time to allocate to a week of sailing and mixed sex partying in quality venues, but are less attracted by hard core championship racing with a load of blokes with quite one dimensional socials, after all it is meant to be a holiday. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 4:15pm
| 200's had a 100 boat entry limit.... Maxed that pretty early on. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 4:28pm
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Maybe an entry limit is the key to maxing out early on? ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 4:48pm
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I did one champs at Rock - never again. Far too tide limited, too many sandbanks, and the RO set a high speed reaching leg right across the sailing schools "raw beginners reach to and fro" area leading to some horrifying near misses. Obviously in those circumstances its damn the rules, and racers keep clear of learners, but we had one where we shaped up to go behind the learner and she tacked in front of us. I don't know if she was frightened but I certainly was.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 11:31pm
Its certainly true that if you don't have an entry limit you won't max out early on. |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 10:17am
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I did one champs at Rock - never again .... Sounds like the RO kept you in the harbour then ! The 14's, of course, look like they are well out at sea - as you would fully expect for a fast class. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 12:25pm
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Well here's a typical reason, I had actually been thinking of nipping up to Gunfleet, it's not too far and the Solutions are there and the guys at Gunfleet have been making very welcoming noises on social media, But... We're at a wedding on Saturday, just as well I didn't pre book. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 04 Sep 17 at 7:46pm
| Was it 110 boats for the Aero Nationals? Obviously just a flash in the pan. Order will be restored soon. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Sep 17 at 9:06pm
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Well it makes my point, there's demand for modern, light, easy to sail, yet good performance boats.
I think even the Soutions bucked the downward attendance trend. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 04 Sep 17 at 9:44pm
Even Lasers had more than that and thats with a lot of the fleet at international events! Plus it the aeros was dominated by laser sailors. 1st in the 7 fleet was a P3 full rig sailor, 2nd was a radial youth squady!
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 Sep 17 at 10:25pm
| It would be hard to find a fleet that doesn't have a sprinkling of former Laser sailors. |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 04 Sep 17 at 11:05pm
fair point. If i ever get back in mine, I get around the ww mark and sort of groan at the thought of a run in the thing ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04 Sep 17 at 11:42pm
A lot of the fleet? I'm fascinated as to who exactly you think makes up the vast majority of the class membership...... because it certainly isn't the ones going off doing the international events. A lot of the fleet aren't turning up, and it has absolutely nothing to do with international events being run at the same time. |
Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 8:06am
Well I'm not suggesting all these events affected attendance but: 4.7 Worlds: 41 Brits Radial Youth Worlds : 26 brits U21 Worlds: 17Brits |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 8:35am
Yep, and reference those 26 radials and 17 fulrigs against the sheer volume of class members. Numbers wise it's the equivalent of an entire club not turning up for club racing on a sunday and then saying numbers were low because that one sailor 'John' didn't turn up. Also, didn't the person who won the radial nationals also go to the youth worlds? I'm not having a go at the laser, I'm just pointing out that proportionally compared to other classes, the laser isn't getting good turnouts and that the class assoc should be looking into that. The laser standard nationals attendance numbers numbers should barely even notice if the top few don't turn up. |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 10:08am
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Doesn't Dougal's post highlight the schizophrenic nature of the Laser, I have owned a few in my time and enjoyed sailing them, but essentially the Laser is just a tool for a job, a bit like a tennis raquet, it is used by Olympians, Masters Sailors, Youths, comes in different sizes and is raced at Club, National, European, World and Olympic level. If one were to draw a Venn diagram (something I have not done for forty years) for the different sailor groups, I suspect that you would see 15 descrete circles with little or no overlap. My point is that reading anything into Nationals turnouts ref the health of the Laser is relatively meaningless. Perhaps the issue is whether the traditional Y&Y Nationals Attendence table remains the most appropriate meter for the health of a class while the demographics have changed? For instance Laser qualifiers have very high attendances, Laser Masters events have high attendences; perhaps the appeal is turning up, doing a lot of races and not taking time out of work or holiday time? ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 10:32am
Its not a question as to whether its the most appropriate metric - its just that until recently its the only one we had. We now have the number of races in the RYA table as well, but not any others I'm aware of. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 10:46am
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One wonders if anyone bothers to check how many individual racers there are listed on those RYA tables, it would give an idea of the health of the racing population and of course if you had to register to get your personal handicap, they'd know even more..
Edit It also begs the question, what's more important, the numbers of types of boats people are racing, or the numbers of individual people racing them? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 11:33am
| I have to risk attack by posting but perhaps Laser is the accepted single handed class for international or Olympic sailing and is as such sailed by those who aspire to stardom. If you asked those sailors if they would like to change en bloc to another class what would they reply? By the way 114 Aeros at Hayling. After how many years? |
Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 11:51am
To me the boat doesn't matter I just want to sail in the class the has the best quality of racing! The most popular single handers (Laser, Topper, Oppi) have great racing but I'm sure none of them claim there boat is the "best" if you get what i mean. It is the fleet that makes the boat not the boat
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Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 1:20pm
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That opens up the unanswerable question of why people sail a certain boat and not another. Some will want a local class, others will chose one with the chance of international events (either for the glory or for the friendships. Some will chose a boat that fits their physique and fitness or sailing style. Budget and aspirations will come into it too but I suspect as noted above that people and the social side of things have a huge impact for those not after world glory. Indeed with the Laser being the boat of choice for campaigning youths and those with Olympic dreams perhaps the perceived seriousness and lack of a good social at events means the ‘leisure’ (and I use that word advisedly) has less to draw them to events. Indeed I did hear at the weekend a rumour that the Finns who always seemed to mix seriousness with a party are suffering a tad from the lack of the latter, which if true is a shame as they were legendary for being an Olympic class that still had food fights! ------------- OK 2249 D-1 138 |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 1:23pm
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Many people seem to be confusing 'owning and sailing a Laser' with 'being a member of the Laser Class'. I have a Laser, I am not a member of the Laser CA. I have zero desire to attend a Laser Nationals. If I felt the urge to travel to any singlehander events, I'd probably be looking at something other than the Laser class. The 'Laser class' is a much smaller pool of people than the number of boats active at class level. And as such, it's probably pretty healthy when you take into account the Masters and various regional events. The point of sailing a Laser outside of the CA and their events is that we don't need to travel to get pretty reasonable class racing at our level. At the CA's level I dare say we'd look like a bunch of uncommitted unfit part timers whose boats are past their sell by date? We're only doing it for fun. |
Posted By: Peter Barton
Date Posted: 05 Sep 17 at 1:32pm
What a bizarre statement! Comparing a 47 year old
class with nearly half a century of production to a 3 year old one. Well done to the Lasers anyway. It was great having Sam & Ben Whaley join the RS Aero Nationals. Their expertise added to both the racing and the pre Nationals coaching which they provided. There were quite a few charterers and borrowers, several of them Laser sailors and several more who would not sail Lasers. I think you do Ben a disservice in describing him as ‘youth squadie’. Poetic licence maybe, but not really accurate. He is of course the recent Radial National Champion and extremely competent. It was hugely rewarding to achieve over 50% more than last year and smash the big 100 which the RS Aero Class so nearly reached at the Worlds in France in July. Achieving those numbers at Hayling just 5 weeks later makes the Nationals turnout that much more noteworthy again. Particularly pleasing was the significant increase in both Youth and Ladies entries. With 23 Youth (U19) and 22 Ladies both were approximately double what we had last year! Our youngest sailor was 12yrs who coped admirably and on the windy days came home under his own steam once he had had enough. http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/198278/RS-Aero-UK-Nationals-overall" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/198278/RS-Aero-UK-Nationals-overall |