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Sailing and electronic control

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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing and electronic control
    Posted: 11 Aug 17 at 8:45am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

indeed add a Spektrum transmitter and a few servos and you could lower the all up sailing weight by about 65 kilos

You would have to do something about the lack of righting moment, though.
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 17 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed


Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

indeed add a Spektrum transmitter and a few servos and you could lower the all up sailing weight by about 65 kilos

You would have to do something about the lack of righting moment, though.


i would last than a boat length upright anyway
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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 17 at 11:39am
Going back to my analogy about WW2 fighter planes, I think that was not really what I wanted to say. A better one might be the dinghy world being similar to carburetor based car engines. Carbs were/are lovely finely engineered pieces of equipment, and I remember my Dad taking his apart on the kitchen table to clean and adjust. However when injection systems came in they offered so many advantages in terms of relability and adjustability (for those who really want to) that carbs have now virtually disapeared from modern road vehicle.

Electronic control has penetrated so far into all aspects of our society that I'm sure it will make an apperance in some sailing dinghys if some class rules were relaxed. This will mean disruption for some but in some classes where money if of less importance, but  it may mean an unbeatable edge. With sample times in the mega hertz,  response time would be far faster than anything available now.

A simple introduction might be control for T foil rudders, it might be posible to have smaller surfaces used more effectively?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 17 at 12:11pm
It's a fair point, and my post wasn't entirely taking the piddle. Exactly how far we want to go with electronics, drones, computers etc has an infinitely different number of answers and infinite chances for tension. It does seem odd, for example, that some offshore sailors are happy to have an engine going 24/7 to move a keel but would object to those of us on other boats sending a drone down the course to look at the wind around the next headland.

We probably do, though, always want to be aware of the issue of technological overshoot and its effect on the wider sport and the perception among potential new sailors. Perhaps in the end sailing will end up like some other sports such as surfing or cycling (and perhaps snowboarding and skiing), and each discipline will ignore the other disciplines to a large extent. We already do that with windsurfing and kiting, one supposes. Maybe foiling will become as separate a sport as windsurfing and will attract those looking for high tech, whereas "seahugging" will remain a sport powered by nature.

PS - OK, let's ignore solar-powered electronics.  :-)


Edited by Chris 249 - 11 Aug 17 at 12:13pm
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 7:33am
Conceptually, using electronics to control foils is not hugely different from using an autopilot to steer.
These things have their place in certain areas of sailing.

I suspect we could add a lot of complication and find the wand system on a Moth is just as good?
Much as some cruising sailors still use vane systems?
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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 2:12pm
The problem with mechanical systems is that there is a limit to speed of the response time due simply to the mass of the parts and friction in all its forms. If boats are to go much faster mechanical systems will not be able to cope and new electronic systems will have to be developed.

Electronics also allow for a system to learn which mecanical systems cannot do well

Complexity is a relative perception. Cars have amazingly effective ECUs which hardly ever go wrong and so can be in black box terms seen as simple.  The complexity is hidden from us (well most of us anyway).

Similar black box thinking could be done on boats with only the inputs and outputs being within the normal control of the user 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 17 at 10:13pm
Plug and play?
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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 17 at 9:04pm
Eventually yes.......
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 10:08am
Why not go the whole hog, remove the moveable ballast (ie helm) and replace with ecu plus appropriately placed videocams and servos?

That way the (fat) controllers can remain on the shore and if they require the genuine experience, one duty of the race officers would be to hose competitors down at frequent intervals.
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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 17 at 6:14pm
I probably didn't make my point clear. I was only proposing this sort of thing for boats that are already so fast that their control systems are close to the edge of what is practical in a mechanical analogue system. I would not want this sort of system for ordinary slow sailing.

Somewhere there will be a point where there is a  change from being Sailors to being Pilots. At that point new systems similar to planes will need o be developed

Though looking at some of the foiling trimaran model yachts that are around I can see the attraction of Time Lord's proposal.  Wink
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